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"LEGO Star Wars: The Force Awakens" announced!


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elrunethe2nd
Just now, TheDiplomat said:

Well, if it's overcooked, maybe they'll at least get a few burns in.

 

I... I'm sorry.

 

In all honesty, though, humor wasn't completely disregarded in LJW, from what playthroughs I've seen. I mean, none of it was laugh-out-loud: just some visual gags, slapstick, having characters eaten in the movies escape death... But it's not like LSW did anything much funnier.

 

Oh no, it wasn't disregarded at all, it's just that just about every camera frame has some cheap gag going on in it. You see it in the trailers above, too. Not a serious moment.

It's just kind of sickly sweet, you know?

 

I don't mind a well placed moment of levity using slapstick or visual comedy to get a laugh out of a moment, but Tt's handling of jokes is so blatant, crude (as in cudgel, not puerile) and over the top that I really can't enjoy the overall ambiance of a game properly.

 

There's a larger discussion to be had here about tonal dissonance in game-play (with the player destroying everything and building crazy devices out of scrap) interspersed between scenes of a largely serious nature, and on that, I don't think forfeiting any sense of risk or seriousness is the way to go, to be honest (particularly with such well-loved franchises). That's just me though. 

I personally think that children are robust enough emotionally to be able to accommodate and appreciate a good plot (with comic relief if required; I think the first Avengers film serves as a great example of highly successful plot/humor ratio in media, leading to broad age appeal). In games, good, varied and engaging game-play will make it memorable and keep them playing (to be blunt, I am implying that Tt games are shallow, and abuse third party licenses and cheap gags to keep kids playing instead of evolving better game-play, but perhaps I preach to the choir). 

 

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McJobless
33 minutes ago, elrunethe2nd said:

 

Oh no, it wasn't disregarded at all, it's just that just about every camera frame has some cheap gag going on in it. You see it in the trailers above, too. Not a serious moment.

It's just kind of sickly sweet, you know?

No, I don't.

 

I'm the last person to defend Tt Games/Tt Fusion but...what? Do you understand who the target market is at all and why they throw in these exaggerated jokes? Tt doesn't use cutscenes to stick close the source media, it uses them to reward the player for completing a portion of gameplay (or to annoyingly point out an element of gameplay I can already f****ing see thanks Tt). Children love the exaggerated stuff (hell, I thought a lot of LEGO Jurassic World was hilarious as well), but they're not old enough to understand subtext or themes (which Tt chops out anyway since they can't show the entire films in their games). If you don't understand why people die in Jurassic Park, then all you have is a movie about a lot of people getting eaten, and that's not fun for the kids (Hint: Jurassic Park is about survival fittest, chaos theory, the human need for control and so forth, ideas way above the kiddies).

 

38 minutes ago, elrunethe2nd said:

I don't mind a well placed moment of levity using slapstick or visual comedy to get a laugh out of a moment, but Tt's handling of jokes is so blatant, crude (as in cudgel, not puerile) and over the top that I really can't enjoy the overall ambiance of a game properly.

If you're coming to a Tt Game to enjoy the "ambiance" of the original story, you're in the wrong place. These games are NOT designed to cover the source material accurately. It's formula-designed entertainment for 5 year olds, but they use licensed material to both give the games credibility and give them content ideas.

 

42 minutes ago, elrunethe2nd said:

There's a larger discussion to be had here about tonal dissonance in game-play (with the player destroying everything and building crazy devices out of scrap) interspersed between scenes of a largely serious nature, and on that, I don't think forfeiting any sense of risk or seriousness is the way to go, to be honest (particularly with such well-loved franchises). That's just me though. 

Yeah, it is just you.

 

Again, the target market don't understand the themes or context. Hell, they probably understood the stories better when there was no dialogue and all the motions were even more exaggerated. The kids are focused on the PLAYER STORY rather than the CONTEXTUAL STORY; they care more about the cool things they did in the gameplay and what they're learning (I remember a specific instance where my cousin couldn't stop shouting at me about some unique character interaction in one of the Batman DS games that he loved). The cutscenes are there to give them a break, as otherwise they might burn out and stop playing because they're tired.

 

"Tonal Dissonance" is not the problem with Tt Games' Design department; that's a side effect of applying a "popular" formula on top of different movies.

 

49 minutes ago, elrunethe2nd said:

I personally think that children are robust enough emotionally to be able to accommodate and appreciate a good plot (with comic relief if required; I think the first Avengers film serves as a great example of highly successful plot/humor ratio in media, leading to broad age appeal).

I got a great laugh out of this one.

 

Your average Tt Episode should last at least 1 and a Half times as long as the original movie, if you're quick player. Kids are going to take hours. They need to be rewarded for retention. Just keep that all in mind.

 

49 minutes ago, elrunethe2nd said:

In games, good, varied and engaging game-play will make it memorable and keep them playing (to be blunt, I am implying that Tt games are shallow, and abuse third party licenses and cheap gags to keep kids playing instead of evolving better game-play, but perhaps I preach to the choir).

You're not complaining about the gameplay. You're complaining about their representation of source material through the cutscene gags. It's an entirely different area of the design and Tt Games keep them clearly separated. There's nothing wrong with their story side; Tt Game's design department is just absolute s*** at designing engaging gameplay loops for children.

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elrunethe2nd
Quote

Do you understand who the target market is at all and why they throw in these exaggerated jokes?

...

It's formula-designed entertainment for 5 year olds

PEGI 7, E10+ and PG 15.

So what? Does that mean it should be bereft of depth or seriousness? It's a lazy argument. Meanwhile, one medium across, Pixar has been targeting the same age bracket for decades and releasing films that have broader appeal. 

 

Quote

the target market don't understand the themes or context

That's a bit presumptuous.

 

Quote

These games are NOT designed to cover the source material accurately

Source inaccuracy does not preclude consistent ambiance and immersion, and you incorrectly suggest I demand the original ambiance of the source material. As it is, these games waver dramatically in tone to try and tick boxes with respect to source material while integrating lowest common denominator humor.

 

26 minutes ago, Ben2x4 said:

You're not complaining about the gameplay. You're complaining about their representation of source material through the cutscene gags. It's an entirely different area of the design and Tt Games keep them clearly separated. There's nothing wrong with their story side; Tt Game's design department is just absolute s*** at designing engaging gameplay loops for children.

I actually am complaining about both. Tt use cheap jokes and gags in tandem with (bowdlerized) popular IPs to keep people buying and playing instead of making fundamentally fun, original and replayable games (this doesn't mean these are mutually exclusive). It's why their games don't have great replay value when played solo; they're shallow, and only original once. This is a fundamental flaw in their formula, and thus their games. 

 

The obvious rebuttal to all this is that I'm just not part of the target market as an adult and therefore relevant. I disagree, based on marketing choices made by Tt. By taking adult-oriented source IPs (Batman, Jurassic Park, Star Wars, etc..) and turning them into games, it's practically false advertising as to what the consumer can reasonably expect without prior experience with Tt titles (Lego is aimed at a diverse range of ages). Incidentally, I just re-watched the Steam Store trailer for Lego J.W. and there are only two big gags in 1:30 of content, which otherwise sets a serious tone (promising chases and action, interspersed with recreated famous scenes from the films). I'd consider this quite a different promise from what the game actually is.

And sure, you can argue that this boils down to poor research on the buyer's behalf, but I think I'd be forgiven for judging a (non-AAA) game based on its release trailer, and let's not forget that impulse buying remains a serious market force rooted in cover designs and screenshots. Regardless, this isn't a compelling reason for why Tt shouldn't do better when it comes to game depth anyway. 

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TheDiplomat
6 hours ago, elrunethe2nd said:

There's a larger discussion to be had here about tonal dissonance in game-play (with the player destroying everything and building crazy devices out of scrap) interspersed between scenes of a largely serious nature, and on that, I don't think forfeiting any sense of risk or seriousness is the way to go, to be honest (particularly with such well-loved franchises).

Eh, I can sort of see what you mean, but honestly, that's what most people expect from a LEGO game. A lot of kids playing may not know the story, so there still has to be a little bit of the serious scenes to convey it. But at the same time, if you do know the story, then it's nice to have some funny stuff happening in the background to entertain you and add something new. So a little bit of dissonance is inherent. And to be honest, if they were to go further in one direction to improve consistency, I think less serious is the way to go. If you want a serious story, then one has tons of other options, including, well, the source material itself. It's nice for LEGO to change the tone up a little. Furthermore, I don't know if anyone ever picks up LEGO while desiring a serious experience. When playing with LEGO, it almost always becomes a contest of "who can be zaniest", so of course TT games is going to play along a little.

 

6 hours ago, elrunethe2nd said:

I personally think that children are robust enough emotionally to be able to accommodate and appreciate a good plot (with comic relief if required; I think the first Avengers film serves as a great example of highly successful plot/humor ratio in media, leading to broad age appeal).

4 hours ago, elrunethe2nd said:

PEGI 7, E10+ and PG 15.

So what? Does that mean it should be bereft of depth or seriousness? It's a lazy argument. Meanwhile, one medium across, Pixar has been targeting the same age bracket for decades and releasing films that have broader appeal. 

 

It's a good plot/humor ratio, yes, but it's not the only good one. For example, I hear LEGO Island is rather popular[citation needed] and humor is the forefront with plot as an afterthought. Heck, for the most part, Mario has no plot and no humor. Plot isn't really a necessity in a game (Pixar makes movies, which sort of need a plot unless you're being artistic). LIkewise, seriousness isn't really necessary either. "Does that mean it should be bereft of depth/seriousness" provokes the question "Must it not be bereft of depth or seriousness?". LEGO/TT can cater to a different need than that of compelling storytelling.

 

Now, I know that this requires something else to compensate for the lack of plot, like gameplay, which brings us to...

 

6 hours ago, elrunethe2nd said:

In games, good, varied and engaging game-play will make it memorable and keep them playing (to be blunt, I am implying that Tt games are shallow, and abuse third party licenses and cheap gags to keep kids playing instead of evolving better game-play, but perhaps I preach to the choir). 

 

Here I sort of have to agree with you... and, at the same time, Ben.

 

Yes, cheap gags might be making people buy games that are really rather boring otherwise. But the gameplay wouldn't be any better without these cheap gags. Without the humor, the game has almost nothing to offer. Then it's neither a fun environment nor a fun challenge. :P If you say that it keeps people playing, then clearly some people enjoy it, even if it's shallow.

But if we are talking about TT games and not the experience of, say, LJW itself, then I can totally relate. It's incredibly frustrating to watch interviews that go like:

 

"Wow, Mr. Fantastic just turned into a teapot!"

"Yeah, if you don't press any buttons or do anything fun, then the game rewards you with some cool surprises!"

"Man, it's amazing to see you guys do the Marvel universe such detailed service. Say, what's new with gameplay?"

"Oh, well, Mr. Fantastic can go through these new slots."

"Isn't that similar to short characters in the original LEGO Star W--"

"Hey, look at what Wolverine does."

"Oh my gosh he becomes an adamantium skeleton when he dies that's so cool!"

 

 

 

On the topic of gameplay, though, this game looks a bit better than I expected. The dogfights look a thousand times better than the horrible, horrible vehicle level designs in latest TT games, and blaster battles might be fun. I mean, yes, they'll both probably be too easy/repetitive, but it's better than anything new LEGO The Hobbit or the TLM game tried with gameplay. Maybe I'm biased, though. I loved LSWIII, and I guess I'm hoping for some sort of successor to it. :P

 

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aidenpons

From reading the above comments - Lego's humour has a place and I find it funny - but I also agree it seems to be just too overdone.

 

I'd also like to say that what I played from Lego LoTR and Lego The Hobbit, the gameplay was bad. Okay, the spazzing was down to a terrible machine and it vaguely runs on my upgraded (well, hah, "upgraded") machine. The gameplay was repetitive.

 

And to me the point of a game is largely the gameplay. Plot and humour are the... side dishes. It's great if it has both - but if it's got perfectly good gameplay, I'll go with it. Take Age Of Empires II (not the HD edition, that's a buggy mess). Absolutely no plot - Koreans and Britons fighting in Africa - and absolutely no humour (the Wololo was only in AOE1), yet it's the gameplay that brings me back. Terraria too - no plot, almost a complete lack of humour. Yet it's the gameplay.

 

Plot and humour are important (to me at least), but they're not the main goal.

 

 

And I know Ben/Jobless/[[Insert pseudonym here]] will doubtless have something to say about how terribly wrong I am, and that's I suspect largely due to the fact that aforementioned pseudonym has spent a long time working with game design, whereby I am limited to fiddling with Scratch and just playing games, not making them.

 

 

*Shrugs* We're all different and we all have different opinions. I don't think any of us are expecting this to soar-through-the-charts in terms of sales.

 

Oh, and can I add something extra? Lego The Hobbit was released after the second Hobbit movie came out, probably to coincide with the sets as much as anything else. So there's the third movie to be covered

No Battle of Five Armies content. No DLC, no update, all we have is a non-TT person poking around the internet and posting their announcement to not do anything about BoFA on the Steam discussion. (And Steam is the only platform to my knowledge - I got the disk version & still had to install Steam anyway).

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Dazzgracefulmoon

 some more gameplay footage, blaster battles looking real neat.

The offical release date is the 20th of this month, so pretty close!

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