Map Creator (0.9.11)

[Aki Dazrold]

I ask because this was my major problem with all the versions of the map editor/creator I've used so far.

[Cyrem]

Without even testing this, I ask the following:

When editing heightmap tiles, can one clearly see wich tiles in the map are angled to adjust the height difference?

Meaning, when you take a patch of tiles and make them lower than the surrounding terrain, how do you tell wich ones are sloping down and which ones are flat?

No. The terrain is smoothened/angled when the map loads in RR. If one tile is lower then the other the angle will be more like a V shape with no flat area. For flat area you would have to do

[2][2][2]

[2][1][2]

[2][2][2]

2 is a slope, 1 is a flat. But this also depends on how far deep you are going.

[Aki Dazrold]

So, if I have a map of height X, and I put nine tiles in a 3x3 pattern of height Y (where X != Y), the only flat tile of these nine will be the one in the middle?

[TheDoctor]

(X factorial?)

That looks like what Cyrem said. You could also try it for yourself, see how it works for you.

[Aki Dazrold]

(X factorial?)

No... != means "not equal to".

[Anonymouse]

No... != means "not equal to".

In programming, yes. In maths, no.

Sorry, I had to say that

[ON-TOPIC] I will try the editor when I next boot windows, which is probably a long time away from now. *hopes it's good*

[TheDoctor]

Oh, cork it mouse. _nerd...

Ok, the cry one shouldn't be too hard to get right.

[Anonymouse]

Isn't it cror?

Sorry.

I think so too, it should be easy,

[TheDoctor]

Mouse is right. Its Cror. And all you need are place/delete Crystal/Ore options. The easiest one yet.

[Cyrem]

Cror BETA 1 has been released. See first post.

Enjoy.

[Matt]

Good progress, and there's no actual bugs I've found, only a few more recommendations:

- I think that as you keep releasing each map type into the creator, you should keep in mind the order that you place them in the scroll menu. Having surf first is logical, but I think that the crystals/ore could come further to the front, in either 2nd/3rd position, as opposed to being at the end because that was the last map type you released. I think ore/crystal placement would be used more than say the height map, and also in conjunction with the surf map, and so I think that 2nd would be the most logical place to put it in the order.

- With the height map, I don't think placing is that user friendly. You can set the entire map to one height which is good, but say you wanted to do a block of X squares that is a few squares higher than the default which you've set. You have to manually click on each of the X squares a certain amount of times each to bring them all to the same level. What could be useful is an option where when clicking on a square to set the height of it, it would rise/sink to the same height as the previously-clicked-on-square. This could be done maybe by holding down a ceratin key (e.g the shift key as it isn't very useful currently with the heightmap; it only races between the 2 extreme heights).

- Also with the heightmap, I think the randomize option is a bit redundant in its current state. It's a good idea, but currently where it randomizes the whole map, this isn't really useful, as you're not really going to be wanting to make your entire map completely random and uneven heights. What could be more useful with this feature, is if you could specify a few parameters. If you could choose to set the squares to only randomize between heights of say -2 and 2, this would be more useful. This could also be combined with being able to randomize only a certain area of the map. What would be ideal, is if you could maybe be able to highlight a certain area of squares, and then choose to randomize the heights of only the highlighted squares. However, this requires implementing a highlighting function into the creator, of which I'm not sure how easy that would be. However, if you did manage this, I'm sure it could be used for other things as well (such as filling in highlighted areas with a certain type of rock)

- As for the 'Set All Height...' function, I noticed you're yet to change that. If you don't want to change it to enter a number between -7 and 8, maybe you implement something different like a scroll bar.

So yea, I'm still not happy with the heightmap function, but the cror seems to work fine.

~Matt

[Anonymouse]

OK, quick question: Will you be adding a Tuto.map editing mode? And are you planning to make the new goal script editor separate from the map editor?

[Addictgamer]

Adding a bit to mouse.

Can you make the goal script editor both included in the map editor AND a standalone version?

[TheDoctor]

OH! Goal scripter! That's a good one to have. It should be separate though, 1, so we can call it the GoalScripter, 2 because its doesn't directly edit the levels. Well, it might, but whatever, its your choice. It probably wouldn't go too well with the Map Creator interface though...

*downloading*

Ok, here we go.

1. It took me a second to realize that you needed to place the crystals in a wall. How about a prompt when you try to place them outside a wall to say you need to place them in a wall.
   
2. The method of choosing how many Cyrstals/ore leaves a bit to be desired (in my opinion). Only those values? How about when you click "Place", it comes up with a crystals and an ore text box/drop down menu. With the text box, you can put in any value directly. With the drop down menu, you can select 1-25 or whatever crystals/ore from there. I like the text box idea. Imagine an HTML <form> text thing. That would be more user friendly too.
   

Just something to think about for the Beta 2. Oh, and can you make the contrast between the crystal/ore symbols when they're in the wall higher? Like make the crystals greener, and the ore browner.

You're doing a great job with this Cyrem.

P.S., can you do the emerge next please?

[Anonymouse]

1. OH! Goal scripter! That's a good one to have. It should be separate though, 1, so we can call it the GoalScripter, 2 because its doesn't directly edit the levels. Well, it might, but whatever, its your choice. It probably wouldn't go too well with the Map Creator interface though...

*downloading*

Ok, here we go.

It took me a second to realize that you needed to place the crystals in a wall. How about a prompt when you try to place them outside a wall to say you need to place them in a wall.

2. The method of choosing how many Cyrstals/ore leaves a bit to be desired (in my opinion). Only those values? How about when you click "Place", it comes up with a crystals and an ore text box/drop down menu. With the text box, you can put in any value directly. With the drop down menu, you can select 1-25 or whatever crystals/ore from there. I like the text box idea. Imagine an HTML <form> text thing. That would be more user friendly too.

Just something to think about for the Beta 2. Oh, and can you make the contrast between the crystal/ore symbols when they're in the wall higher? Like make the crystals greener, and the ore browner.

You're doing a great job with this Cyrem.

P.S., can you do the emerge next please?

1. Yes, it would fit in, especially if Cyrem also includes the Tuto.map.

2. A spinbox would be best for this (one of those boxes with a number in them and up/down arrows next to it)

[TheDoctor]

2. A spinbox would be best for this (one of those boxes with a number in them and up/down arrows next to it)

Bah, fine then.

[Ghost73]

Matt, the reason for the weird values for ore and crystals can be explained if you look at the cror.map file on the rru wiki. http://rockraidersunited.org/wiki/index.php?title=Cror.map_file

Basically, the reason is because we don't know the hexadecimal code for any other value besides 1, 3, 5, 11, and 25 crystals/ore.

I know, it sucks...

Good job tho, cyrem

[Matt]

Huh? Why are you adressing that at me lol? I never mentioned anything about cror values, and I think you'll find it was TheDoctor/Anonymouse who were discussing that.

But yes, only having the HEX code for those values would be why Cyrem has only used those values. I wouldn't think that there'd be any other values, as in the original game, you would only ever get 1 or 3 crystals at a time (i.e I've never seen just 2 crystals being found in a wall), with occasionally 11/25 (i.e the lake in Frozen Frenzy). I don't actually recall seeing a 5 before, so well done on finding that.

With the goal script, you could just add it to the top, with something like 'Add Objective'. And then once you've said it, it could maybe display what the current objective is.

I notice you've still got your 3 redundant options at the top (Open, Save and Create), which are 'disabled' in BETA. I'm assuming you're planning to have .rme files (or similar), which could be used for opening and saving a project of all map types, but what did you have in mind for Create? Start is basically creating a map, and so I'm wondering is this what you had in mind for the Goal Script? (i.e Create goal?).

Meh, I'll stop disctracting you. I guess you shouldn't worry about this until you've finished implementing all the map types into the creator.

[Cyrem]

Good progress, and there's no actual bugs I've found, only a few more recommendations:

- I think that as you keep releasing each map type into the creator, you should keep in mind the order that you place them in the scroll menu. Having surf first is logical, but I think that the crystals/ore could come further to the front, in either 2nd/3rd position, as opposed to being at the end because that was the last map type you released. I think ore/crystal placement would be used more than say the height map, and also in conjunction with the surf map, and so I think that 2nd would be the most logical place to put it in the order.

- With the height map, I don't think placing is that user friendly. You can set the entire map to one height which is good, but say you wanted to do a block of X squares that is a few squares higher than the default which you've set. You have to manually click on each of the X squares a certain amount of times each to bring them all to the same level. What could be useful is an option where when clicking on a square to set the height of it, it would rise/sink to the same height as the previously-clicked-on-square. This could be done maybe by holding down a ceratin key (e.g the shift key as it isn't very useful currently with the heightmap; it only races between the 2 extreme heights).

- Also with the heightmap, I think the randomize option is a bit redundant in its current state. It's a good idea, but currently where it randomizes the whole map, this isn't really useful, as you're not really going to be wanting to make your entire map completely random and uneven heights. What could be more useful with this feature, is if you could specify a few parameters. If you could choose to set the squares to only randomize between heights of say -2 and 2, this would be more useful. This could also be combined with being able to randomize only a certain area of the map. What would be ideal, is if you could maybe be able to highlight a certain area of squares, and then choose to randomize the heights of only the highlighted squares. However, this requires implementing a highlighting function into the creator, of which I'm not sure how easy that would be. However, if you did manage this, I'm sure it could be used for other things as well (such as filling in highlighted areas with a certain type of rock)

- As for the 'Set All Height...' function, I noticed you're yet to change that. If you don't want to change it to enter a number between -7 and 8, maybe you implement something different like a scroll bar.

So yea, I'm still not happy with the heightmap function, but the cror seems to work fine.

~Matt

I have something in mind to allow you to choose your mode rather the switch through them all the time. I can maybe look into something the will raise/lower surrounding blocks when you change the hight of 1. I'll look into adding a selection tool later when testing an undo function. No I haven't changed the yet, it will be changed in the next BETA.

OK, quick question: Will you be adding a Tuto.map editing mode? And are you planning to make the new goal script editor separate from the map editor?

Yes I will be adding that mode. No I haven't made any plans to make it a separate program.

Can you make the goal script editor both included in the map editor AND a standalone version?

I'll consider it when the program is complete.

OH! Goal scripter! That's a good one to have. It should be separate though, 1, so we can call it the GoalScripter, 2 because its doesn't directly edit the levels. Well, it might, but whatever, its your choice. It probably wouldn't go too well with the Map Creator interface though...

*downloading*

Ok, here we go.

* It took me a second to realize that you needed to place the crystals in a wall. How about a prompt when you try to place them outside a wall to say you need to place them in a wall.

* The method of choosing how many Cyrstals/ore leaves a bit to be desired (in my opinion). Only those values? How about when you click "Place", it comes up with a crystals and an ore text box/drop down menu. With the text box, you can put in any value directly. With the drop down menu, you can select 1-25 or whatever crystals/ore from there. I like the text box idea. Imagine an HTML <form> text thing. That would be more user friendly too.

Just something to think about for the Beta 2. Oh, and can you make the contrast between the crystal/ore symbols when they're in the wall higher? Like make the crystals greener, and the ore browner.

You're doing a great job with this Cyrem.

P.S., can you do the emerge next please?

Yes they are set values and you can't have any amount between 1-25. I might put in that prompt. The scripter will be included with the editor because emerge, tutor and the goal script all tie in-together. I kinda can't have one without the other so emerge and tutor will probably come out at the same time. I still have the Path, Erod and fall to do.

But yes, only having the HEX code for those values would be why Cyrem has only used those values. I wouldn't think that there'd be any other values, as in the original game, you would only ever get 1 or 3 crystals at a time (i.e I've never seen just 2 crystals being found in a wall), with occasionally 11/25 (i.e the lake in Frozen Frenzy). I don't actually recall seeing a 5 before, so well done on finding that.

With the goal script, you could just add it to the top, with something like 'Add Objective'. And then once you've said it, it could maybe display what the current objective is.

I notice you've still got your 3 redundant options at the top (Open, Save and Create), which are 'disabled' in BETA. I'm assuming you're planning to have .rme files (or similar), which could be used for opening and saving a project of all map types, but what did you have in mind for Create? Start is basically creating a map, and so I'm wondering is this what you had in mind for the Goal Script? (i.e Create goal?).

Meh, I'll stop disctracting you. I guess you shouldn't worry about this until you've finished implementing all the map types into the creator.

Yes the goal scripter will work something like that. Yes Open/Save will do *.rme files. Create will create save all the map files into one folder. The goal scripter was just going to be another mode.

Thanks for the comments.

[Ghost73]

oops, sorry matt, i dont know what i was thinking when i put your name in my post, lol

[TheDoctor]

Hey, Cyrem, any progress yet? Any news on an update?

I also had an idea for another feature. An "Import Level Set" feature. You select a folder, and it finds all the files it it. Like you select the level 12 folder, and it imports the map, dugg, etc files in one fell swoop instead of importing them all at once.

[Cyrem]

Hey, Cyrem, any progress yet? Any news on an update?

I also had an idea for another feature. An "Import Level Set" feature. You select a folder, and it finds all the files it it. Like you select the level 12 folder, and it imports the map, dugg, etc files in one fell swoop instead of importing them all at once.

I'm think of just releasing the next BETA 1 since there is not much updates to this BETA. I've just been giving a little attention to my other projects and trying the balance the development between them(and to avoid getting bored with doing just this all the time), that's why there hasn't been an update.

Yes, I had that idea planned for when all the modes are done.

---

EDIT[26/1/10]: Fall BETA 1 Released! See first post. (Includes new Path and Fall modes)

If you are adding Landslide to your map, you will need to add this to your level CFG:

			Fallinmultiplier				10

			NumberOfLandSlidesTillCaveIn	6			

			NoFallins						TRUE

			SafeCaverns						FALSE


			FallinMap						Levels\GameLevels\Level01\Fall_01.map

"Fallinmultiplier" is what controls the speed of the landslides. Smaller the value, faster the landslide occurs.

[Matt]

Good progress as always, and I am able to get quite far on my new map now.

However, as per usual, I have to nitpick away at it:

- I like the new function of Shift whilst editing the heightmap, but I didn't find a use for Control. Shift seems to copy and paste the last used height, which is really only what you need. To just copy something, seems a bit redundant. (Plus I couldn't even get the control function to work.)

- However, there is a bug with the shift function. When holding down and dragging over the heights, it will copy the last used height as per usual, and overwrite the current height on that square, except it doesn't do it if the height is +8. When dragging over +8, the +8 will stay there, and the copied, previous height will not take its place.

- You've implemented a show/hide shading toggle for the heightmap, but don't have this toggle for any of the other map views which have a shaded view. While the shading toggle of the heightmap is a slightly different shade, and there could be a underlying reason for why you haven't added a toggle for the other map modes, it just seems a little inconsistent.

Meh, I'll leave it at that. There's a couple more things I could say, but I have a feeling that they may change once you finish implementing all the modes, so I'll wait for that stage before giving some overall suggestions.

~Matt

[Cyrem]

Good progress as always, and I am able to get quite far on my new map now.

However, as per usual, I have to nitpick away at it:

- I like the new function of Shift whilst editing the heightmap, but I didn't find a use for Control. Shift seems to copy and paste the last used height, which is really only what you need. To just copy something, seems a bit redundant. (Plus I couldn't even get the control function to work.)

- However, there is a bug with the shift function. When holding down and dragging over the heights, it will copy the last used height as per usual, and overwrite the current height on that square, except it doesn't do it if the height is +8. When dragging over +8, the +8 will stay there, and the copied, previous height will not take its place.

- You've implemented a show/hide shading toggle for the heightmap, but don't have this toggle for any of the other map views which have a shaded view. While the shading toggle of the heightmap is a slightly different shade, and there could be a underlying reason for why you haven't added a toggle for the other map modes, it just seems a little inconsistent.

Meh, I'll leave it at that. There's a couple more things I could say, but I have a feeling that they may change once you finish implementing all the modes, so I'll wait for that stage before giving some overall suggestions.

~Matt

Ok, Copy to be removed. Thanks for the bug report! . Well the shading on/off option doesn't really need to be there, I just added it for who knows what reason....So I can remove it. But I see little point in showing the heightmap in the other modes.

Thanks for your input again! :)

[Anonymouse]

Maybe checkboxes to toggle visibility for each map? Just an idea.