Map Creator (0.9.11)

[Cyrem]

New Emrg BETA Released!

You can now emerge rock monsters from walls(Yes I've tested it myself)! But to a degree, you can only trigger RM's to come out when an RR walks over a particular spot you specify. More abilities such as emerging on an amout of crystals etc... will be available when the tutor and npl editor is done.

In order to make emerges work with maps you'll need to add this to the level config. Change to what you see fit. (1500 = 1 minute)

			EmergeTimeOut					1000.0

			EmergeMap						Levels\GameLevels\Level01\Emrg_01.map

Warning: Once 1 monster emerges you'll have to wait the EmergeTimeOut before another one will come out at any location.

[Lair]

Does the thing happen where it triggers multipal walls if the trigger is set to 0, or a backup wall if one is drilled; the thing I said about the sets of 5?

[Joe9412]

I love this, no clue what im doing lol but i love it. So many controls, its like i have the whole game to myself and i can do whatever i want hehehe.

Oh and no bugs found yet..even though i have not done much.

[Matt]

Sorry that I'm a bit late with the feedback... been struggling to find the time to play around with the latest version.

The usual list of things:

- Something isn't quite right in the importing of walls of original surf maps. I was importing the map files of the original levels to test out the new features of the Map Creator, but some walls don't seem to load properly:

[Taken from the Original Frozen Frenzy]

The circles indicate the missing walls into the next cavern. From memory, I think all the missing walls are dirt, but I'm not certain on that. Either way, something doesn't seem to be working properly.

However, if you import a surf file created by the creator itself, this issue doesn't seem apparent.

- On the subject of importing original map files into the creator, the piles of crystals that appeared in certain maps (e.g the lake in Frozen Frenzy, or right up the top in Rocky Horror), don't show up in the cror map (as 25 Crystals or whatever). Is this something to do with the fact that they weren't placed in walls?

- Also on the importing of original map files: I imported the original files of Back to Basics, and it appears that that map is too big for the creator. You can't fully scroll to the edge of the right-hand-side of the map. I was under the impression that the 50x50 parameter was a parameter of the .Map files, but on a quick count, the Back to Basic's Width is over 50, at least 60 I would estimate. So is this a parameter set by you Cyrem, and if so, can you make it bigger?

- With the placement of trigger and emerge points, it could be improved. Assuming you can only have one trigger and one emerge of each number (I could be wrong here), I think it could be improved by automatically counting up for you. I.e the first trigger point you click, it will come up as number 1, but the next square that you place a trigger point on, it automatically labels this point as number 2. The next trigger point placed would be number 3, and so on. This function could be replicated with the placement of the emerge points as well.

I realise that there could be a problem if you start deleting some, or try to move them around, (i.e you want to replace the old trigger point number, but not the emerge point number) so maybe you could implement a toggle for turning suggestive numbering on and off, through a menu option, or maybe holding down shift.

- As an observation from importing emerge files from original maps, quite often they give thirds of a number. Is this just an individual number that you can set to emerge and trigger points, or is there something else to them?

Wow that list turned out big. Sorry 'bout that. I'll try and leave you to implement the remaining map types into the creator. There aren't many to go now, and the creator is coming along great.

~Matt

Edited August 29, 2019 by Slimy Slug

[Cyrem]

Sorry that I'm a bit late with the feedback... been struggling to find the time to play around with the latest version.

The usual list of things:

- Something isn't quite right in the importing of walls of original surf maps. I was importing the map files of the original levels to test out the new features of the Map Creator, but some walls don't seem to load properly:

[Taken from the Original Frozen Frenzy]

The circles indicate the missing walls into the next cavern. From memory, I think all the missing walls are dirt, but I'm not certain on that. Either way, something doesn't seem to be working properly.

However, if you import a surf file created by the creator itself, this issue doesn't seem apparent.

Ah ha! finally found that bug eh? I've known about it for some time, I intended to fix it in the next beta. They've used an odd hex for dirt, 05 or something like that.

- On the subject of importing original map files into the creator, the piles of crystals that appeared in certain maps (e.g the lake in Frozen Frenzy, or right up the top in Rocky Horror), don't show up in the cror map (as 25 Crystals or whatever). Is this something to do with the fact that they weren't placed in walls?

Yes, I believe they were created in the OL file, so the maps don't have anything to do with that.

- Also on the importing of original map files: I imported the original files of Back to Basics, and it appears that that map is too big for the creator. You can't fully scroll to the edge of the right-hand-side of the map. I was under the impression that the 50x50 parameter was a parameter of the .Map files, but on a quick count, the Back to Basic's Width is over 50, at least 60 I would estimate. So is this a parameter set by you Cyrem, and if so, can you make it bigger?

Yes I set that, I didn't think any of the maps were that big, so I guess I'll have to adjust it. The map is actually 70, but I allowed the editor to go 80.

- With the placement of trigger and emerge points, it could be improved. Assuming you can only have one trigger and one emerge of each number (I could be wrong here), I think it could be improved by automatically counting up for you. I.e the first trigger point you click, it will come up as number 1, but the next square that you place a trigger point on, it automatically labels this point as number 2. The next trigger point placed would be number 3, and so on. This function could be replicated with the placement of the emerge points as well.

I realise that there could be a problem if you start deleting some, or try to move them around, (i.e you want to replace the old trigger point number, but not the emerge point number) so maybe you could implement a toggle for turning suggestive numbering on and off, through a menu option, or maybe holding down shift.

Yes that problem is the reason why I did it the way I did.

- As an observation from importing emerge files from original maps, quite often they give thirds of a number. Is this just an individual number that you can set to emerge and trigger points, or is there something else to them?

I'll have a look at that. I think it's because they've done something funny with the emerge files, mine is set up so odds are triggers and evens are emerges. I set it that way because it's they easiest way to figure out what is a trigger and what is an emerge when importing. Never-the-less I will look.

[Lair]

With the placement of trigger and emerge points, it could be improved. Assuming you can only have one trigger and one emerge of each number (I could be wrong here), I think it could be improved by automatically counting up for you. I.e the first trigger point you click, it will come up as number 1, but the next square that you place a trigger point on, it automatically labels this point as number 2. The next trigger point placed would be number 3, and so on. This function could be replicated with the placement of the emerge points as well.

I realise that there could be a problem if you start deleting some, or try to move them around, (i.e you want to replace the old trigger point number, but not the emerge point number) so maybe you could implement a toggle for turning suggestive numbering on and off, through a menu option, or maybe holding down shift.

I don't see how that is good, because usually the maps are set to where if an emerge wall is drilled there are some backup walls that will also emerge if the first is gone (hence my asking of the sequences), and if you set the emerge time to 1, all of the walls will trigger emerges at once. So it would be best to leave as is, though there could be an easier way to insert #s.

[aLPHA]

Is there supposed to be a building place tool??? That is the only thing missing.

[Lair]

Erosion is missing to.

Also, in future versions, can there be something that maybe scans a cfg or something or allows a custom monster place, you know, for people who enable spiders and custom monsters...

[aLPHA]

If a hidden area tile is placed on lava, the lava shows up as land and is risen into a mountain. I will confirm if this was a map overlapping or something else.

[Cyrem]

Is there supposed to be a building place tool??? That is the only thing missing.

Yes, that will come in the final beta's.

Erosion is missing to.

Also, in future versions, can there be something that maybe scans a cfg or something or allows a custom monster place, you know, for people who enable spiders and custom monsters...

Maybe, I'll think about it.

If a hidden area tile is placed on lava, the lava shows up as land and is risen into a mountain. I will confirm if this was a map overlapping or something else.

Thanks for this report, I will also have a look.

---

Matt, regarding the missing dirt walls, there is a major problem with importing of the original surf maps. In my editor I use 00 as the ground, however RR uses 05 as the ground/dirt wall. In RR it depends on the Dugg file for it to decide whether it's ground or a dirt wall. Now the problem is, my editor allows you to import the maps separately. So if I make it 05 = dirt wall, all the ground will be dirt walls. The reason this wasn't an issue in "Level Editor" was because it imported all the maps at the same time and was able to check and decide what was what on importing. So the dilemma is, if I make 05 import properly it would mean the removal of importing the maps singly. This is what I meant when I was talking about the inconsistencies in RR quite a while back because some hex's depend on other hex's in other files to decide what they are.

An alternative to fix this issue would be to make an original map importer that will import all the maps at the same time like the old editors. And of couse, when they are saved they are saved in the Editor friendly version.

[Lair]

And in an ol maybe you could type the X Y placing. You know how several Rock Monster fit in one square... just saying.

[TheDoctor]

It would seem that this is starting to turn into a Level Creator. Not a bad idea though...

[Anonymouse]

I suggest an NPL editor, which can allow you to use a (probably rather limiting) GUI or edit the actual code. If you can implement python into it, you might want to use ogun's tools. :)

[Cyrem]

Hydrogen, Sorry but I cannot duplicate your lava bug, hidden lava is working as intended. Did you make sure you exported new Surf and Dugg maps? also, for any hidden tiles to work the hidden area must be surrounded by walls.

And in an ol maybe you could type the X Y placing. You know how several Rock Monster fit in one square... just saying.

You mean Rock Raiders? Yes I'll think about it.

I suggest an NPL editor, which can allow you to use a (probably rather limiting) GUI or edit the actual code. If you can implement python into it, you might want to use ogun's tools.

Yes the NPL editor will use ogun's npl generator. The NPL editor will be like a text editor allowing you to write whatever scripts you want. And it will probably have a button for a easy NPL code maker for the users that don't understand it fully.

[Lair]

You mean Rock Raiders? Yes I'll think about it.

...yes and no, I ment Rock Raiders fit several per square true, but Rock Monsters and others could do the same.

[Cyrem]

New EMRG BETA 2 out now! I wasn't going to release this one (and just include it in tutor beta) but I changed my mind. A bunch of changes you can see in the first topic.

Erode/Tutor and the Original Map Importer will be in the next beta.

[Matt]

Swift progress as usual, and I didn't find any actual bugs this time.

My suggestions this time are to do with the interface (although you could wait until you've implemented all the map types into the creator first):

- I don't really like the names that you've given to the buttons up the top, considering their function now/in the future. I think "Start" could be replaced with "New", and "Create" could be replaced with "Export". You could then add "Import" as well, and move the individual Import/Export X.map to these buttons. You could then create a drop down menu allowing you to import/export an individual map file, or import/export all map files.

- With the changing of the map types/modes in the bottom right corner, I see you've added a drop down menu, so is this your 'method of choosing the mode' that you mentioned earlier? If so, it wasn't what I was thinking. I was expecting you to have icons for each like you did in the Level Editor 0.5, and this way, you could space them all out along the bottom. There's plenty of space if you use the same icons as in the level editor. I would find this faster to use, as it's just a one click to the mode that you want, instead of always have to click to get the menu, and then click to select the mode. I know it's kind of padantic, but on a user level, the less clicks you have to do, the better.

So yea, just some suggestions on the UI. As said, maybe I should've waited until you'd finished implementing all the map types into the creator, but meh, just mentioning them. You don't have to take them on board if you don't want to. You're the creator of the creator; you do what you want lol.

~Matt

[RockmoddeR]

VERY nice...all you need to do now is add the objects and building placer. If you know HOW to do goal scripting (I really don't) it would be AWESOME if that was implemented. We are looking at an almost fully complete map editor! Also, if you can, make it so you can zoom in/out when editing so it's easier to move across large maps.

[Cyrem]

Thank-you for your suggestions Matt.

rockmodder, yes the Map Creator will contain a goal scripter. I'll look into zooming after v1.0 is released.

[aLPHA]

I can't wait for the object place tool!!! :D

[Cyrem]

Tuto BETA 1 Released! See first post & New Notes. This means all the *.map file editors are done and it can edit them all. Only 2 BETA's left before release (OL and NPL).

NOTE: The red marker in the Erod editor means pre-eroded ground. That means that ground will start either eroded already or it has begun eroding. By the looks of it, Rock Raiders randomises it.

If you use a Tuto file make sure you link it in the CFG to make it load the file. This also goes for Erod files.

If you are using erosion, make sure you add:

			ErodeTriggerTime						1

			ErodeErodeTime							1

			ErodeLockTime							1

To your level and increase the numbers to increase the time it takes to erode the ground.

[Matt]

Geez, I'm running out of things to say in this first sentence. Coming along great as usual

However, quite a few things to say this time:

The Import>Original Game Map Function is a good concept, but has a few issues:

- There are several cases when using this function, where the Map Creator Window will get minimized/sent to back behind other windows. This most notably happens when you've finished importing a map, and when you cancel out of it. As you would be wanting to do something else in the Map Creator window in these cases, I'm assuming this is a bug.

- I don't get why you have to type in a 'New Map Name' every time you want to import the map files. Once you import all your files in, when you'd finished, you'd be saving it as a project (once that's enabled), or exporting these files, both of which would name the map files for you. I don't really get why there is another naming step here?

- I also think the tick boxes to select the map files you import, are not the best option. With this way, you have to already know in advance which map files are in the folder you are importing, or go through the hassle of navigating to that folder in windows explorer in another window to find out. If you made it so that there wasn't that initial screen with name and tick boxes, and just started on importing all the files, you would be able to choose which map files to import as you could see all the ones that are there through the explorer, and you could make the cancel button skip that map file. However, I recall something like this in Editor 0.5, and you never got round to making the cancel button work as a skip function, and so I realise that there maybe an underlying programming difficulty, and that the way you've set it up, is easiest. All I'm trying to do is think of a way to not make you have to know in advance exactly what files are in that folder.

- Lastly about the importer, when you've finished importing the map files, the default mode to edit is always emerge, which probably isn't the most useful one right at the start. I think it would be better if it was back to the default of being in the surf editing mode first.

Other Suggestions:

- After more thought, I think that my suggestion last time of icons for each mode along the bottom isn't the best. Instead, I think you should leave the menu how it is, but implement HotKeys into the creator. Just simple F1=Surface, F2=Dugg, (or letters maybe: S=Surface, D=Dugg,) etc, would be beneficial to frequent users of the creator. Frequent users would get used to these, and then it would skip the process of always clicking in the menu, to the option, and out again, but the menu with the full names would still be there for newer users who are still getting used to the creator. I'm hoping that hotkeys are a relatively easy thing to implement, but as I'm not really a programmer, I can't say for sure.

- Just a small consistancy thing: You should probably implement confirmation messages when clearing/reseting all in the dugg and cror editing modes. You have confirmation messages in all the other modes, and so it would make sense to add it to these two as well.

So another BETA down, not many more to go now.

~Matt

[Anonymouse]

Just throwing in another idea - could you add an advanced OL mode where objects can be placed by typing their name, allowing custom monsters etc?

[aLPHA]

When wll the object place mode come out???

[Eagle98]

When it will, H², when it will :)