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New version of ROCK RAIDERS - update


StewartG
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I fail when playing an RTS (my strategy always ends up being everyone defending, instead of anything else)...

Though LRR is classed as an RTS, you do realize that it's not a military/war RTS, right?

Lego are adamant that things are family friendly, hense no guns, death etc, however in focus groups, kids immediately wanted to 'kill' the monsters, it is a balancing act between the brand image and what the customer wants. We are hoping to have more of an open sandbox where the player decides what style of game they want - i will post the zone rating details, players choose the peaceful or wild (agressive) planetoids they want to play in and this reflects the combat and neighbours - basically you can play without combat or more aggresively like a traditional RTS.

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OK a bit more on the design ideas: It is still being fleshed out, but it answers some questions that have been raised. 

STORYLINE:

The year is 3099 and the far reaches of the universe are being colonized with the search for valuable resources. Sending men to these remote and far away lands is dangerous, so instead we teleport a remote controlled android. For some strange reason these look like a Lego MiniFigure, but it’s not exactly the same, as there are still copyright laws even in the 31st century!

 

Your Minifig wants to explore and discover resources, such as minerals, gems and power crystals. These are usually hidden beneath the surface, and unless you can discover caverns and tunnels, your minifig will need to dig deep underground to get these. When you find a good seam, you can choose to chip away at it with your pick axe, or you could teleport back some of your wealth and rent some serious, upgraded excavation equipment. Crushers, or laser drills can get the work done in short time, but for big equipment you need big power supplies and support buildings. Its up to you, choose to build a large mining complex or keep it simple.  Then there are the ‘local’ inhabitants to deal with. The more disturbance you make, the more local wildlife you will disturb. Some of the locals are easy to catch, and we call these ‘food’ but many can bite back, and they will call YOU food. You will need to build defenses to protect you and your base. In some cases, if they dislike water, this might be a simple ditch, but in the case of a Rock Monster, I would recommend a river of flowing lava, and make it wide as these monsters can jump!

 

The universe is a pretty big place,  so big in-fact that there is a type of world to suit everyone.  Planetoids are in zones, which are rated  1 (peaceful) to 5 (wild), so you can choose your neighbors and style of world for the style of game that you want to play. Some people may want to build a magnificent city, design buildings, and create landscaped  gardens, and these can be on worlds where you can build, without interruption from other minifigs. Or you can goto a high risk and reward, ‘5 zone’, where you will have to spend as much on defense equipment as you do on mining. You will want to craft or buy, defense towers,  weapons and armor.  If you want combat and action in these zones you can also choose to be a mercenary, flying from planetoid to planetoid taking what you can steal from the inhabitants.

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We are evaluating possible game engines, there is a realistic voxel landscape with Unity or a 'blocky' look similar to Minecraft. I like the lookof the realistic landscape, but the classic blocky look is easy to visualize and fits well with a LEGO look product.

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Lego are adamant that things are family friendly, hense no guns, death etc, however in focus groups, kids immediately wanted to 'kill' the monsters, it is a balancing act between the brand image and what the customer wants. We are hoping to have more of an open sandbox where the player decides what style of game they want - i will post the zone rating details, players choose the peaceful or wild (agressive) planetoids they want to play in and this reflects the combat and neighbours - basically you can play without combat or more aggresively like a traditional RTS.

Okay, sounds good to me.

 

I fail when playing an RTS (my strategy always ends up being everyone defending, instead of anything else)...

Though LRR is classed as an RTS, you do realize that it's not a military/war RTS, right?

Yeah...

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We are evaluating possible game engines, there is a realistic voxel landscape with Unity or a 'blocky' look similar to Minecraft. I like the lookof the realistic landscape, but the classic blocky look is easy to visualize and fits well with a LEGO look product.

Personally, I really don't like LEGO visuals in a video game, I prefer a realistic look. That's one thing that appealed to me about LEGO Rock Raiders our of all the LEGO video games out there; Even though it's called LEGO, it barely looks LEGO. The terrain is realistic and the only LEGO elements show up in buildings, the raiders and other units, and the vehicles. Even then, the LEGO elements usually blend in with the rest of the model so it doesn't look strictly LEGO.

I don't know what everybody else wants, but I've always envisioned and dreamed (Note: Literally dreamed. I've had some awesome dreams about a sequel to Rock Raiders ^_^) Rock Raiders 2 not as being LEGO but being realistic.

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In some cases, if they dislike water, this might be a simple ditch, but in the case of a Rock Monster, I would recommend a river of flowing lava, and make it wide as these monsters can jump!

 

So we would be able to manipulate fluids in the environment? If we can also build walls up to any height, then we could make a giant silo of water with floodgates at the bottom. When there is danger, pull a lever to flood everything on that side of the silo. Including pressure into the game's physics is a must.

 

Bonus: Have it activated by an enemy stepping on a pressure plate.

DwarfBonus: Fill it with magma instead.

MegaDwarfBonus: Build two, one with water and one with magma, then activate both with one lever and encase everything in obsidian.

 

Like addictgamer, I too would like to see a more realistic art style for this. LEGO is fine, but the blocky look has been done enough times already. Instead of looking like a LEGO or Minecraft ripoff, let's develop a more unique style.

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I’ve got a couple of questions:

1. How much will this game roughly cost?

2. What consoles will this game be on, or is it just PC?

3. Any concept art you can show us at this point?

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OK a bit more on the design ideas: It is still being fleshed out, but it answers some questions that have been raised. 

STORYLINE:

The year is 3099 and the far reaches of the universe are being colonized with the search for valuable resources. Sending men to these remote and far away lands is dangerous, so instead we teleport a remote controlled android. For some strange reason these look like a Lego MiniFigure, but it’s not exactly the same, as there are still copyright laws even in the 31st century!

 

Your Minifig wants to explore and discover resources, such as minerals, gems and power crystals. These are usually hidden beneath the surface, and unless you can discover caverns and tunnels, your minifig will need to dig deep underground to get these. When you find a good seam, you can choose to chip away at it with your pick axe, or you could teleport back some of your wealth and rent some serious, upgraded excavation equipment. Crushers, or laser drills can get the work done in short time, but for big equipment you need big power supplies and support buildings. Its up to you, choose to build a large mining complex or keep it simple.  Then there are the ‘local’ inhabitants to deal with. The more disturbance you make, the more local wildlife you will disturb. Some of the locals are easy to catch, and we call these ‘food’ but many can bite back, and they will call YOU food. You will need to build defenses to protect you and your base. In some cases, if they dislike water, this might be a simple ditch, but in the case of a Rock Monster, I would recommend a river of flowing lava, and make it wide as these monsters can jump!

 

The universe is a pretty big place,  so big in-fact that there is a type of world to suit everyone.  Planetoids are in zones, which are rated  1 (peaceful) to 5 (wild), so you can choose your neighbors and style of world for the style of game that you want to play. Some people may want to build a magnificent city, design buildings, and create landscaped  gardens, and these can be on worlds where you can build, without interruption from other minifigs. Or you can goto a high risk and reward, ‘5 zone’, where you will have to spend as much on defense equipment as you do on mining. You will want to craft or buy, defense towers,  weapons and armor.  If you want combat and action in these zones you can also choose to be a mercenary, flying from planetoid to planetoid taking what you can steal from the inhabitants.

Iffem_shut-up-and-take-my-money.jpg

 

No seriously, I'm loving these ideas.

 

We are evaluating possible game engines, there is a realistic voxel landscape with Unity or a 'blocky' look similar to Minecraft. I like the lookof the realistic landscape, but the classic blocky look is easy to visualize and fits well with a LEGO look product.

I like realistic also, but if you go with the blocky look... would the exposed cavern walls be like cubes or angled walls like LRR? Just trying to visualize it.

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2. What consoles will this game be on, or is it just PC?

Stewart already said the platforms would include PC, Wii and iOS. Wii? Really? I thought that console was well and truly dead? And their history with that console really isn't good...

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given Data Design Interactive's post-LEGO Rock Raiders reputation, and just another piece of Wii shovelware

Hi Peabody, I don't mind addressing this. We sold over 5 million Popcorn Arcade titles, It was a huge worldwide success, and the truth is that the public loved the titles and we are still selling them now. Our only problem was that the press (actually 2 companies) hated our titles. to be fair they didnt understand them, they saw the huge success we were having and didn't get it. At the time the press was talking about 100 man teams taking 5 years to develop hardcore games, and we came along with family friendly casual games at the lowest price on Wii, the opposite of what they thought gamers wanted. At the time, the Press didn't think family friendly, simple to pick up and use games would be popular, and they slated our games for being too easy, and simple. The whole games market has since learnt that simple online games and phone games have captured the majority of the market, this type of game is exactly what the public wanted! To be a commercial writer you quickly learn that extremes sell, writing a review of an average game, at at affordable price appealing to young kids isn't 'interesting copy' you get a better story saying, this is the best game, or worst game in the world. Anyone who has been in the business will also stell you the correlation between advertising budgets and review scores! and we didn't advertise. It was sort of amusing as despite their hate campaign, they still kept printing 'why are people buying these games' and thats who we make games for the 5 million players, who bought and kept buying our games, not the 3 magazine writers. Our titles helped the Wii market, at the time NO-ONE was writing games for Wii, and a console flops without enough software, we captured 40% of the market, nothing was a shoddy product, they all fully used the Wii remote, they were all multiplayer games, we were innovators, first to launch titles with Wii motion Plus support, first titles with 3D glasses, our Golf Trainer title won many awards, Budget games can't compare with full price titles, but our games were excellent for the money, and at less than $20 when games were $40-$60 we were games that kids could afford, I am proud of what we did. After saying all that, the New Rock Raiders is not a budget game, it is a BIG project, we can do many styles, and this is a Major quality title for us.

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Sending men to these remote and far away lands is dangerous, so instead we teleport a remote controlled android. For some strange reason these look like a Lego MiniFigure, but it’s not exactly the same, as there are still copyright laws even in the 31st century!

So something like this?

MML2Servbot.jpg

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2. What consoles will this game be on, or is it just PC?

We are looking to impliment new formats in our engine, and add in new online multiplayer playability, Rock Raiders/ Block Raiders i splanned as the launch title for this. We will obviously be on PC, but with online support, we support Wii and Wii-U - as we like the idea of using the Wii-remotes  for hacking, chopping away at the screeen (we also support wii-remotes on the PC) and the gamepad for crafting would be great, we want support for Android (OUYA) and iOS iPad and finally I would love to get a version on FACEBOOK.

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Sending men to these remote and far away lands is dangerous, so instead we teleport a remote controlled android. For some strange reason these look like a Lego MiniFigure, but it’s not exactly the same, as there are still copyright laws even in the 31st century!

So something like this?

MML2Servbot.jpg

I like it, its cute, similar to a minifig but not quite the same, are you OK if I ask some artists to work on this as a basic concept? any other concept ideas greatly welcome.

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Tauka Usanake

I just learned about this after not getting on the site anymore. I want to get in too.

 

Modding options will allow for player designed, vehicles, in various models and graphical styles to be created and available as downloads.

I'd like to remark that when concerning modding, the system which is being modded on can be an issue. PC's always moddable. I don't know about the Wii or iOS. Android I know is.

Also while we're on the topic, make sure you make a Linux version so AddictGamer won't complain about having to Windows to play it.

 

Then there are the ‘local’ inhabitants to deal with

In old versions of LEGO Rock Raiders set there was a type of alien/artifact thing in some of the pictures. I also remember something about Insectoids being in the same universe. These might be some ideas to bring to light but only ideas.

 

The terrain is realistic and the only LEGO elements show up in buildings, the raiders and other units, and the vehicles.

This is what I would prefer but only because of what I want to believe the LEGO universe is. Only materials made should be LEGO of whatever material is decided for this game.

 

I am happy for this game but also disappointed in a way, maybe like Lair in a sense but not. Rock Raiders is remembered as a LEGO game and to be something not completely like one is a little discouraging. At the same time it's GREAT that it's not a LEGO game because that means LEGO corp doesn't have rule over it. I guess what I'm saying is that I'd like to see a LEGO Rock Raiders that's not "LEGO" but not just "Rock Raiders" either.

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lol username

I was talking to a few people about this and we're actually concerned about you developing this game on multiple formats at once. Having multiple formats means that you need multiple teams to work on each version, which splits your time and energy. If you're planning on PC, Wii, WiiU, Android, iOS, and Facebook... you're spreading your effort way too thin and the main product (PC) will suffer. And honestly, the game will end up being completely different for each format. The PC has mouse and keyboard controls which are superior to a controller (WiiU) or pointer (Wii), and far superior to a touchscreen (Android, iOS). The general attitude towards Facebook games for many people around here is negative, and I feel that you will receive either backlash or apathy towards a Facebook version of the game.

We do not want Farmville Raiders. We do not want to waggle a Wiimote at a screen in order to drill a wall. Please understand this. Your trending analysts may say that Facebook games are hot right now and the casual market is something you need to capture, but RRU in general is not in that market. I don't want to speak for everyone, but I think we are looking for a game that makes us think and plan ahead.

This. So much this.

Another reason I'm also concerned about the idea of Facebook, iOS, Android, etc versions is that they wouldn't end up supporting modding, at least to the same degree. The folks here on RRU would likely stick with the PC version and ignore the other ones, and the split in development would likely cause the PC version to not be as good as it could.

Oh, and that image Fushigisaur posted is actually a Mega Man robot: http://megaman.wikia.com/wiki/Servbot

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we're actually concerned about you developing this game on multiple formats at once

I apprecitae your concerns and rest assured we have 30+ years of expereience, we would not bite off more than we know we can chew. Our GODS game engine is designed as multiformat, we support all the machine specific hardware at a low level, but support compatability at a high level. We write the game at the high level and then it automatically works for each format. For example, the Wii controller, was added as a positional device - it basically works identically to a mouse, and we can use it as or instead of a mouse. We later extended the code and added physical drivers to support specific new features of a wii remote on the PC, so other features (rotation, distance to the screen etc) all work on a PC with a Wii-remote or 4 wii-remotes. We have designed developed and tested every game, PS1, PS2, Xbox, gamecube, Wii etc, on all these formats on a PC under GODS and then we compile it at the end for the desination format., it is then optomised for the format,  It is a very reliable and very productive method for coding. as the majority of the code (80%?) is already tried and tested, and bug free. If you imagine working the opposite way around, dont redesign a new game with new code on every individual format based on that systems hardware (100% rewrite), instead keep your code, and change just the lowest level code to fit the hardware (10-20% rewrite). Take for instance:  all the interface, GUI and inputs. Rather than writing new GUI code for a new machine, we already have a working GUI, so we just code the low level hardware access to screen pixels, memory access to support our existing GUI code, and instantly we have fully featured support for a complete GUI and we can continue to program on PC for the new format, and just complie it at the end for the new format. we instantly have old games working on new formats. You are  right about not able to support modding on all formats - Nintendo are a very closed system, Android, tablets and OUYA are looking to be open, and PC will be the biggest and most flexible modding system.

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My references to simple casual games was only in reply to our popcorn arcade titles, which were designed to be simple and for a young age, we do all sorts of titles, we have done 18+ rated titles, (which RR2 will also not be). RR2 will be a more involved and complex game, multiplayer, more depth aimed teenagers to adults. The only format that will probably require a lot of change in design is for facebook. I don't like the simple 2D block games on facebook, you can do a real 3D game, and thats what I want to do. What i do really find exciting is the massive multiplayer possabilities and the long term realtime daily progress, people play facebook games very differently to  'PC'  games, something they do every single day, but only for a short update time, but reguarly for days, for months, and years, this dedication can lead to a really big support and amazing worlds that can be created. Fans will be able to construct whole worlds of specifically constructed buiildings, bases, that keep going on, constantly improved and expanded, I love the concept of limitless design a universe of limitless worlds. Imagine  building your craft capable of space travel and discovering these worlds that are truely unique. that have been crafted by hand, block by block  by real people. exciting, intreaguing, a real discovery.

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Fluffy Cupcake

and add in new online multiplayer playability

Will there be different types of options for online? Like co-op (maybe even a multiplayer for story mode), competing, or both types? I'm kinda hoping for both.

Now that I think about it, outside of this (which did not involve you), has random generated maps even been discussed?

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We do not want to waggle a Wii mote at a screen in order to drill a wall.

I should explain this better, it is an added choice and benefit, not a requirement. Our code is written to support multiple inputs, what we are offering to the user is the choice of how they want to play. If you want to move the screen with keys, point with a mouse, or point with a Wii remote you can. A block will be 'drilled' if you press the drill key, click the mouse or swing the Wii remote. At a high level the code works on a block selection and a trigger event (key, click or swipe), the player chooses how they would like to control the interface. There is no compulsion to use a Wii remote, but in some instances, it could be fun. when controlling a flying object banking is easy and accurate with a Wii-remote, but keys or mouse can still be used if you prefer.

It is great to get some issues cleared up, I am used to working with a team who already understands how we work, and I am now realizing, somethings that I take for granted, as known and understood, I should not be assuming - this is a good learning experience for me . Please do keep raising concerns and ideas are also welcome.

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I was kinda hoping for a storyline sequel to LRR but if all the characters etc. are still owned by LEGO then I am perfectly okay with an in-gameplay-only sequel with a new setting and storyline.

I'd also like to see some of the music (especially the PS1 tracks) make a return. In don't mean recycle the same soundtrack, but just include new versions of some of the old music in the new soundtrack. As a treat for those who have played the original games.

I look forward to seeing what these remote androids end up looking like, whether they look more Servbot-ish (as I previously brought up) or go in a different direction. In fact I'd love to see any concept art of anything, from the enemies to the vehicle types... but it's probably too early to ask for any of that.

One question: will the original LRR vehicles (Chrome Crusher, Granite Grinder, etc.) be included the game, and/or will this new vehicle-customization system allow for one to accurately recreate them?

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Quick question, Stewart: I checked your website, but found nothing. Do you have any PC demos of your games? I'd love to play one of them, and see how it is. A lot of people are a bit skeptical of the G.O.D.S. engine, but I want to see it for myself. :)

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