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Wow People! I Am Both Stunned And Impressed!


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Do you have in your possession or perhaps access to any beta or even alpha software? We have a large database of beta content but little to nothing that we can mod with.

Also, this is in the exe/icd of LegoRR: C:\Dev\SourceSafe\gods98_dx6\gods98\src\Main.c

I mean we can all make some guesses, but perhaps you could have a more educated guess.

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In case you are interested; we have laid the foundations for a remake of the original game, as an open source project.

Would you have any suggestions for us?

1. Funnily enough, I was just checking out the ORR page a few minutes ago, and I had a look at the videos. It looks like you are on the right track. The best way to look at RR is the entire game works as a 2D game, and the 3D is just a 'visual' addition. The game was developed in 3D from the outset, but that was mainly because LEGO wanted to see regular builds, so we needed to show them something of how it would look.

2. I remember the routefinding worked such that it would calculate the blocks along which the unit needed to travel, then it would pick a random point within that block (near the centre), and create a bezier curve that passed through each of those points. If there was a 'tight turn' required by a walking unit (i.e. the RockRaiders), then it would stop and play its 'turn' animation (which is why you would often see a unit stop and turn periodically while walking around). After that we put in 'avoidance' code, to prevent the units from trying to walk through one another (although this we had to balance carefully, as when you have many units, you sometimes must allow them to intersect otherwise they would get *far* to confused).

Can you help out with this if you remember anything? http://rru-stuff.org/nerpfuncs.html

3. I do remember there being a [Please Talk Properly]-tonne of nerp functions, most of which were created especially for the tutorials (which, for a time, were the bane of my existance!!). All of the 'FlashXXX' functions were there to specifically indicate elements of the Hud UI during the tutorial, and as you've noticed, would also pop out the Chief to explain that particular UI element.

4. I notice that some of the functions that you haven't yet documented are explained on the Wiki already, so it may be worth comparing the two lists. If there are any specific ones you're unsure of, I can try and fill in the gaps. I may be able to give 'educated guesses' for many of the once I can't really remember.

I do remember there being a [Please Talk Properly]-tonne of nerp functions...

1. Well, there are three ORR forks. The videos you watched are from ORR-C, my fork.

Actually, ORR-C is 2D at the moment simply because I just can't seem to write a 3D engine. And because it's much easier to write a 2D game than a 3D game.

Plus, 3D takes a lot more power than 2D. My programming computer is way below average.

2. I always wondered why they walk up walls...

3. Hehehe. I haven't been able to get the 'FlashXXX' functions to work. They just do nothing.

4. Right. Forgot about that.

Was there a plan to make first/second person mode more...playable?

You can't have your raider use tools, except for the drills, or collect ore and energy crystals. That was a big disappointed when I was a kid.

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Can you help out with this if you remember anything? http://rru-stuff.org/nerpfuncs.html

I do remember there being a [Please Talk Properly]-tonne of nerp functions, most of which were created especially for the tutorials (which, for a time, were the bane of my existance!!). All of the 'FlashXXX' functions were there to specifically indicate elements of the Hud UI during the tutorial, and as you've noticed, would also pop out the Chief to explain that particular UI element.

I notice that some of the functions that you haven't yet documented are explained on the Wiki already, so it may be worth comparing the two lists. If there are any specific ones you're unsure of, I can try and fill in the gaps. I may be able to give 'educated guesses' for many of the once I can't really remember.

I do remember there being a [Please Talk Properly]-tonne of nerp functions...

Ooops... I got censored. Let's pretend I said "heap-tonne of nerp functions".

Hi! Welcome! I'm obviously just as excited about your having joined this place. (Have I already said this? I'm too lazy to check :P)

Either way, I am one of the resident experts (which is obviously relative - none of us knows much about the NERP stuff), and maintain that function reference - so if you can help with any of those functions, do tell me please :)

Also, most of it hasn't yet been filled in for laziness reasons - I'm one of the greatest offenders in that area. The obvious names are... Well, obvious. As I said, I just haven't yet bothered to fill them in :P

Also, do you know what NERPS/NERP/nrn/nrM stand for? Because I have not the faintest clue.

Anyway, thanks for joining, have fun here and don't leave (at least, not too quickly, please :lol:)

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...I was thinking myself of using dijkstra's algorithm, and finding a way to optimise it (like when you have the final route taking a way around the sides of a square area, the code will let the route go diagonally), yet I really like the random part of the LRR method, as diujkstra's algorithm will most likely result in the same route every time.

I would definitely recommend A*, specifically dijkstra's. That will be pretty much how it currently works (I would imagine the original RR code uses something not disimilar to A*). Again, if I try to cast my mind back, I seem to remember it would 'reevaluate' the route periodically, and that is where the 'random' aspect comes from. I.e. because dijkstra's is not necessarily the 'perfect' route, when it reevaluates the route it may find a 'new' good route. This is how I've implemented dijkstra's myself in the past, and it's worked pretty well for me.

Do you have in your possession or perhaps access to any beta or even alpha software? We have a large database of beta content but little to nothing that we can mod with.

Also, this is in the exe/icd of LegoRR: C:\Dev\SourceSafe\gods98_dx6\gods98\src\Main.c

I mean we can all make some guesses, but perhaps you could have a more educated guess.

I'm afraid not :(

I did have most of the code on my work PC for a couple of years after RR was released, but between new PCs, HDD crashes, and whatnot it vanished. That isn't to say it doesn't exist at all. Everything was backed up at various times, so the bits and bytes will still be sitting on a magnetic backup tape in a box somewhere, but I wouldn't be able to gain access to it now. :(

Next time I'm in the UK (I now live in FL) I'll see if I can dig out my old work PC to see if there are any remnants on there, but we've purged a lot of stuff over the past few years, so the original code/content may only exist on backup tape/CD.

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I would definitely recommend A*, specifically dijkstra's. That will be pretty much how it currently works (I would imagine the original RR code uses something not disimilar to A*). Again, if I try to cast my mind back, I seem to remember it would 'reevaluate' the route periodically, and that is where the 'random' aspect comes from. I.e. because dijkstra's is not necessarily the 'perfect' route, when it reevaluates the route it may find a 'new' good route. This is how I've implemented dijkstra's myself in the past, and it's worked pretty well for me.

Ah :)

At least the worlds in lego rock raiders are sqyare-based, so that makes it a whole lot easier to work with :P

Just something else: there were still some annoying bugs in the final release of lego rock raiders; like ore appearing at the tool store after a building was done (causing rock raiders to endlessly pick up the ore and putting it down again), slimy slugs not reacting to sonic charges (or "bird scarers" ;)). Were you as a development team aware of those when you release the game?

Also, from some beta images we saw that the beta versions of various models were of a much higher quality than the ones that made it into the final game. Were you forced to reduce the polycount of them at some occasion?

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Oh dear.

A "Paul" AND a "Karl" on the same team! As zak said, that's like...Avenged Irony Seven-Fold.

BY THE WAY, what other games/systems do you play/own?

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Just something else: there were still some annoying bugs in the final release of lego rock raiders; like ore appearing at the tool store after a building was done (causing rock raiders to endlessly pick up the ore and putting it down again), slimy slugs not reacting to sonic charges (or "bird scarers" ;)). Were you as a development team aware of those when you release the game?

I can't remember if we were aware of those specifically, however if you saw some of the earlier beta builds before we'd spent good chunk of time bug-fixing, you'd think the final version was spectacularly bug-free by comparison! I remember there being LOTS of fixing to do at one point... it was quite concerning when we saw the deadline looming and there were more bugs being reported than we were fixing.

Also, from some beta images we saw that the beta versions of various models were of a much higher quality than the ones that made it into the final game. Were you forced to reduce the polycount of them at some occasion?

Exactly this. We originally had quite high poly counts for all the Rock Raiders, and many vehicles/objects. Due to the hardware restraints at the time (bear in mind this had to run on PC's that weren't even new in 1999) we had to make sure the game would run well for all users. This was also the reason for having the 'Enhanced' and 'Standard' shortcuts. The high-poly Rock Raider in particular was a big issue for us, as on older hardware the game would grind to a halt in later levels with lots of Rock Raiders on screen. We tried numerous methods for improving performance, including a model we called 'Triangle Man', which consisted of a minifigure created from large intersecting triangles with its textures placed in the middle of a bitmap with transparent areas around it. This model, I believe came in at well under 100 polys, although I can't remember if this is the one used in the final game. The higher-poly models may well still be in the Wad somewhere. I still need to unpack it and take a look around.

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Do you remember the final day before you had to push out the game?

What did you do? Did you try to fix some last bugs?

And what was it like sending it off finally to be burned on a few million CD's?

I was wondering what that would feel like :)

And were you satisfied with the final game? Or would you rather have seen some changes to it?

Sorry for asking so much at once, but I never really met a game developer so far, which is probably the road I want to go on later on. At least I am studying informatics at the moment =)

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Ok guys, I know we all still have a bunch of questions, but let's hold off for now and let Karl breathe a minute. I'm sure he'd like to take a look around at other stuff and perhaps unpack the wads and take a trip further down memory lane. ;)

Unless of course you're enjoying this, Karl? xD

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Do you remember the final day before you had to push out the game?

What did you do? Did you try to fix some last bugs?

Now that I *do* remember well... although I'm not too sure I can really call it the 'final day', since it lasted 36 hours. The day before the final build was due to be delivered, I started work at 8am that morning. The entire day went by with a QA guy saying "s**t, I've found one last critical bug", and we'd be off to fix it, rinse and repeat. This went on for over 24 hours. The remaining 12 hours was spent with all of us (programmers and QA team alike) playing through, trying to make sure we could repeatedly get through the entire game without any further critical bugs cropping up. Finally by 8pm (the day after I arrived at work), we finally had a disk image to send up to LEGO. Thoroughly exhausted, I slept most of the next day.

And what was it like sending it off finally to be burned on a few million CD's?

I was wondering what that would feel like :)

And were you satisfied with the final game? Or would you rather have seen some changes to it?

As I mentioned above, our initial reward for finally sending it off was sleep. Welcome, welcome, sleep.

We then moved onto another project (which didn't end up getting picked up or released, but such is the games industry), and a couple of months later, LEGO sent through boxed copies of the game, so I had my own shiny new boxed copy. They also sent us all some LEGO shoulder bags (shaped like a giant 4x4 brick).

I think we were satisfied for the most part. I'm sure at the time there were probably a few things that we might have liked to see in there, or things that we would liked to have done differently (this is pretty usual for most projects), but I can't really think of any off-hand now. Perhaps as I look over the game again, a few things may spring to mind.

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Oh my. I barely manage 24 hours so far in a very single occasion :P

I guess that will come in the university period though..

Something else; Lego Rock Raiders has a very cool, but specific concept. I haven't seen the drilling of walls in any other game so far. Who came up with it? Did you get an order from lego, and then started working this out, or did you get the idea for the concept, and asked lego about if you could make a game for it?

And the first-person mode. Was there a special reason to put it in there? Or was it more like "yeah.. that is something awesome, let's put it in there"?

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TRIANGLE MAN! :af: I was playing around in LW8 and opened a raider scene. I called him Triangle Man too, but then he was refitted with highpoly models.

Anywho, Cirevam is due for posting here soon. He's our local modding extraordinare. He knows (and found out) almost everything about model and scene modding. I bet he would be overjoyed if he knew how you guys textured the models in the first place. I would too.

I just remembered. The .flh files. Cyrem made a little thingy to read how many frames it had, but that's about it. We can't find anything that can open them, let alone edit them. I think I had found something on wikipedia, but they're as old as the game. Really, anything you have would be an awesome Christmas present for us.

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Anywho, Cirevam is due for posting here soon. He's our local modding extraordinare. He knows (and found out) almost everything about model and scene modding. I bet he would be overjoyed if he knew how you guys textured the models in the first place. I would too.

In an earlier post, he explained that they used an evolved form of the conquers earth map tool to both make the maps for LRR and UV the models. Later, LW added support for UV which they then switched to.

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Anywho, Cirevam is due for posting here soon. He's our local modding extraordinare. He knows (and found out) almost everything about model and scene modding. I bet he would be overjoyed if he knew how you guys textured the models in the first place. I would too.

In an earlier post, he explained that they used an evolved form of the conquers earth map tool to both make the maps for LRR and UV the models. Later, LW added support for UV which they switched to.

I also vaguely remember us using a tool called UView for applying texture maps. Again, I can't remember whether this was still used towards the end of development, or whether we dropped it during development sometime. If UV mapping is something any of you have had difficulties with, then it may be worth trying to track down this UView application. Its specific purpose was to apply UV maps to Lightwave models.

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I also vaguely remember us using a tool called UView for applying texture maps. Again, I can't remember whether this was still used towards the end of development, or whether we dropped it during development sometime. If UV mapping is something any of you have had difficulties with, then it may be worth trying to track down this UView application. Its specific purpose was to apply UV maps to Lightwave models.

In fact, I've found a Lightwave plugin that reads the .uv files that were created with UView. Not sure if this will be of any use.

Could this be it?

http://www_test.dstorm.co.jp/english/plugin/uview.htm

That could well be it. Even if it isn't, it looks like it should perform the same job.

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I found a link on this page:

http://www.bakhter.com/html/3d/texture_mapping.html

it mentions UView there.

It mentions the name "cinegraphics" as the author of the program. Could that be?

The only problem is that the website it links to is gone :(

just wondering: do you own the lego rock raiders sets yourself? Do you have a lot of lego bricks?

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Cirevam uses Milkshape to make models and then hex edits material colors so that they work in game. I do the same, but I use Wings3D to make the models. Milkshape is needed because that's the only modeling program to natively be able to export lwo's in the proper format. Blender + LithUnwrap works too, but no one seems to use it. I had suspected UV mapping links broke when changing the models, but no one knew how to fix that. Simple coloring of model materials works great, but people like Amauros like their textures. I'll try some things when I get on my computer, and hope something works. As you probably know, Lightwave is a little brat to work with, so the less I need to use it the better. Wings does have UV mapping, but I haven't used much. I'll see what I can do.

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Cirevam uses Milkshape to make models and then hex edits material colors so that they work in game. I do the same, but I use Wings3D to make the models. Milkshape is needed because that's the only modeling program to natively be able to export lwo's in the proper format. Blender + LithUnwrap works too, but no one seems to use it. I had suspected UV mapping links broke when changing the models, but no one knew how to fix that. Simple coloring of model materials works great, but people like Amauros like their textures. I'll try some things when I get on my computer, and hope something works. As you probably know, Lightwave is a little brat to work with, so the less I need to use it the better. Wings does have UV mapping, but I haven't used much. I'll see what I can do.

About with that last statement; I particularly like Lightwave. I can make models with it without much difficulty, and coloring and texturing I can do much easier. In fact, I seem to recall I made one such tutorial somewhere here on RRU; I mean, the interface takes some getting used to, for sure, but once you know it, it's a real nice tool to use.

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the interface takes some getting used to, for sure, but once you know it, it's a real nice tool to use.

That can be said for any interface. It's just some are much more self-explanatory than others. Wings3D is very easy to understand without any outside help... whereas 3DS Max/Autodesk are very difficult to understand on your own without anyone to explain what various functions do.

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I've actualy maxed out the game (, or the computer) with The Unknown (it's in the downloads), a level I created. Or it could be the I don't know what I'm doing, if that's the case, can some one tell me where the problem is. But I do have a partial overhaul in the downloads.

the interface takes some getting used to, for sure, but once you know it, it's a real nice tool to use.

That can be said for any interface. It's just some are much more self-explanatory than others. Wings3D is very easy to understand without any outside help... whereas 3DS Max/Autodesk are very difficult to understand on your own without anyone to explain what various functions do.

If you figure out MLCAD, it'll be much easier to learn AutoCAD.

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I've actualy maxed out the game (, or the computer) with The Unknown (it's in the downloads), a level I created. Or it could be the I don't know what I'm doing, if that's the case, can some one tell me where the problem is. But I do have a partial overhaul in the downloads.

Wrong forum. Also, it sounds like you're doing something wrong, but honestly I'm not sure what you're doing in the first place.

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