Computer Hardware Assistance (General)

[Fluffy Cupcake]

For ponz: http://www.rockraidersunited.com/topic/6928-computer-hardware-assistance-for-ponz/?do=findComment&comment=120981

 

 

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So after nearly being that idiot who buys himself something expensive without much research (because I want something better than crappy stock graphics card =P), I realized I didn't actually have a way to power the card...? I didn't see any free PCI-e 6 or 8-pin connectors which practically all cards use either today, so I'd like to know, is it actually possible for me to put in any graphics card in my PCI-e slot and get it working? I'm a hardware newbie so excuse my lack of knowledge on this.

 

This is what my the inside of my computer looks like (don't mind the dust =P)

450 Watt ATX Power Supply

 

Here's a closeup of my motherboard, which has two free Sata slots (green boxes), I'm not sure if those can be used or anything(?):

 

Other than that I don't know really what to say or give (more pictures? A live video?)

[Arthuriel]

I wrote you via Skype, but I think it's better to post my stuff here again since that way other people can also read it and add their thoughts.

-there are graphics cards, that are faster than your current card and don't need an external power supply (the pcie 6 or 8 pin connectors, you have mentioned). A pcie x16 slot can supply up to 75 watts (you need the cables only for the more demanding cards). Here is a bunch of cards (the link only serves as an example), that you can choose from, if you don't have an external power supply cable (although there are adapters to solve that problem): https://skinflint.co.uk/?cat=gra16_512&bpmax=120&v=e&hloc=uk&filter=update&bl1_id=30&sort=t&xf=5586_aktiv~147_1~5585_ohne~24_75~132_1024#xf_top

Yeah, there are way too many cards on the list, but before you decide to buy one, there are some questions* (or just notes from me), that you should answer since that will (hopefully) help us (in case, that more people will read this thread) to give you better answers**:

-since you wrote about getting a faster graphics card, it probably means, that it is the limiting factor in your system and not other components like the CPU, right? (It's also a question, what games you play since some demand a good gpu (=graphic card) and/or a good cpu etc.)

-your current configuration (since you posted some stuff on your rru profile, that is a good start, although it might be helpful to know a bit more about things like the mainboard etc. Just to make sure.)

-how much are you willing to spend (and what do you prefer? new or used?)

-do you plan on upgrading other parts of your computer?

-apparently you don't use the small pcie x1 slot & pci slot*** (the thing, that you marked with an arrow) at the moment. If that stays this way you can also use cards, that are higher than one slot (two slots etc.)

 

*there are probably more questions, but those are the ones, that came to my mind (I could also ask, what card you almost bought by accident for curiosity's sake)

**in theory I could just write stuff like "Just buy a nVIDIA GTX 750 or 750Ti and be done with it" (and maybe it will turn out, that this is the best answer by accident/coincidence^^), but maybe buying a slower one or waiting for a full pc upgrade are the better options

***it's not a pcie slot like your note indicated

 

[Fluffy Cupcake]

-how much are you willing to spend (and what do you prefer? new or used?)

-do you plan on upgrading other parts of your computer?

*there are probably more questions, but those are the ones, that came to my mind (I could also ask, what card you almost bought by accident for curiosity's sake)

***it's not a pcie slot like your note indicated

 

I'd say around $250-$300, maybe more if it comes down to it.

No, I don't.

I almost got an EVGA GeForce GTX 960 4GB FTW GAMING ACX 2.0+

Oh, I thought that's what it was. ^^

 

[mumboking]

For one thing, that power supply would need upgrading. I wouldn't trust that thing to power a graphics card safely.

Get a decent* 500W or higher PSU that's 80+ Bronze or higher certified. I'm currently running an MSI GTX 970 GAMING 4G with an Antec High Current Gamer 520W.

*tier 3 and up in this list: http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/id-2547993/psu-tier-list.html

On another note, please get some compressed air and blow the dust out of the CPU heatsink... It'll help your CPU run cooler and possibly quieter too.

[Fluffy Cupcake]

That Antec link is invalid.

So I'm just 50W short of something decent? That's a bummer. If (likely) I do upgrade that, I'll be sure to get something good. So what's the price on that one? Antec site kinda fails in that department on mobile.

 

 

[mumboking]

That Antec link is invalid.

Incorrect. It works just fine for me...

So I'm just 50W short of something decent? That's a bummer. If (likely) I do upgrade that, I'll be sure to get something good. So what's the price on that one? Antec site kinda fails in that department on mobile.

It's not just that, it's that your current power supply might not really be able to supply 450W reliably.

Amazon Canada has the semi-modular version cheaper than the non-modular version I have.

The power supply is something you shouldn't scrimp on. Badly made power supplies can ruin your hardware and even be a fire hazard.

Depending on the card you want to put in, you may require an even higher wattage PSU.

[Fluffy Cupcake]

Power supplies [normally] come with cables attached eh? Hmm, perhaps that means I can get that extra 8-pin power cable I wanted to use.

[mumboking]

Power supplies [normally] come with cables attached eh? Hmm, perhaps that means I can get that extra 8-pin power cable I wanted to use.

Non-Modular: All connectors are soldered directly on.

Semi-Modular: Only the essential connectors are soldered on. You can add the other connectors you want to use by plugging them into it.

Modular: No connectors are soldered on. You can add the connectors you need by plugging them into it.

 

That particular Semi-Modular Antec PSU has:

1 x 20+4 Pin, 2 x 6+2 PCI-E, 5 x SATA, 4 x Molex, 1 x Floppy and 1 x 4+4 Pin ATX/EPS

The Non-Modular version has:

1 x 20+4 Pin, 2 x 6+2 PCI-E, 5 x SATA, 6 x Molex, 1 x Floppy and 1 x 4+4 Pin ATX/EPS

 

A 6+2 PCI-E connector can be used as an 6 pin PCI-E connector or as an 8 pin PCI-E connector by putting the separate 2 pin connector next to the 6 pin connector.

Here's a pic of a 6+2 pin PCI-E connector:

 

Looking at the included modular cables, it seems you'd only need to use two of them to power your system. The PCI-E one and one of the SATA ones.

 

P.S: Those links DO work. I just used them.

[Fluffy Cupcake]

That Antec link is invalid.

Incorrect. It works just fine for me...

It brings me just to the error page...

 

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For exact details of what my power connects to:

[1] [2]

I think what you said suits me okay[?]

Also, I seemed to have found the same thing with 100 watts more for only $5 more (shipping not included, that's $10 difference) (Screw prices, something just changed. Still not that much difference though.) http://www.amazon.ca/Antec-HCG-620M-Current-Bronze-Modular/dp/B006TVQTFE/

[Antec page here]

It has
- 1 x 24(20+4)-pin
- 1 x 8(4+4)-pin ATX12V/EPS12V
- 2 x 8(6+2)-pin PCI-E
- 6 x SATA
- 6 x Molex
- 1 x Floppy

If no complaints, I will probably get this one, plus the graphics card I originally had in my cart (holy waffles only one left in stock now!) [Here's the card specs]

I'd like a confirmation this is a good idea at the least.

Edit: As everything looked alright I jumped ahead and got the stuff. I understand the risk and responsibility in my actions and the cancellation price to pay (if already sent out) if you come along saying something is wrong, which as I currently understand shouldn't be.

[mumboking]

All looks good there!

[Fluffy Cupcake]

Yaaay! Now I can have sweet dreams and not nightmares. Thanks for your help.

Edit: CAN'T SLEEP

The card should be arriving between next Tues-Wednesday, and the power supply anytime between Dec 21st and 5th of Jan.

[Arthuriel]

Yeah, maybe I should have emphasized the importance of a power supply, too. Thanks, mumbo : ) (and congratulations to the new card and the PSU. That will be enough for a while^^)

Although in case of a card, that doesn't need an external power supply (and only needs 40 watts more than the old one) it wouldn't have made such a big a difference I guess.

In case of a new card with an external power supply though: Yeah, a new power supply** is definitively a good idea, because your old one doesn't even seem to have cables*, where you could put adapters on.

 

*the Molex connector from the Fan doesn't count^^

**I think, I should have also asked another question: Do you plan on overclocking parts like the CPU or GPU in your computer? Because in that case good cooling and a good power supply are important (although personally I don't really get the need for a power supply over 600 watts (or 400/500 watts, but that depends on the case***), if you don't use several graphics cards and/or overclocked your system to such a degree, that you need water cooling)

edit: I should have mentioned, that it depends on the degree of overclocking (that varies strongly)

***in your case a good power supply in range of 350-450w (let just say ~400 to be extra safe and that probably includes even enough for mild overclocking, but like I said: It's important to know, if you want to do that at all) would have been enough

Edited December 17, 2015 by Arthuriel

[Fluffy Cupcake]

I've heard the term overclocking so much, and while I haven't looked into it I've heard about it enough to get an idea what it is. To answer the question, I haven't even considered it yet.

[IncogM]

I haven't built a computer since for something like 7 years now, but the old logic was overclocking slightly reduces the lifespan of the component.  Not a huge difference, something like upgrading in 5 years instead of 7, which is still pretty old in computer terms.  Cooling seems to be better nowadays though, so it might not even be that big of a deal anymore.

So, theres some reason to not overclock if you don't end up wanting to.

Edited December 16, 2015 by IncogM

[aidenpons]

Vaguely on-topic; What's the best way to clear out a dusty computer's insides using things I can find around the house? Vacuum cleaner? Damp cloth?

[mumboking]

Vaguely on-topic; What's the best way to clear out a dusty computer's insides using things I can find around the house? Vacuum cleaner? Damp cloth?

I use cans of compressed air.

[Fluffy Cupcake]

Vacuum, and anything with moisture can be  damaging. Your best bet is to get (or ask for) a can of compressed air from the store. They go for around $10 CAD where I live. (Yes I dusted out my computer today. :P)

[Fluffy Cupcake]

All is well and glorious!

 

My only concern is that the fan at the back of my computer now has solid yellow lights and doesn't do anything. I'm not sure if this is because my new power supply and graphics card both have fans of their own making it void...? (Yes the others ones work, they noise when I game but are otherwise quiet)

Well, my graphics card certainly isn't powerful enough to consume all the watt differences between the old and new card + PSU, so I don't believe the fan's power is being stolen.

[mumboking]

Are you saying that the fan won't spin? Strange.

Is the fan connected properly? Try unplugging it then plugging it back in. Also, try spinning it slowly by hand.

 

Sorry, I won't be able to reply for a few days.

[Fluffy Cupcake]

Oh it should have power, there is only one cable that comes out of it, in which that is connected to the motherboard, and it is where it should be (note the SYS_FAN1).

 

Edit: Also, under health in my BIOS it says System1 Fan: N/A

 

Edit 2: Tried connecting it to where the cpu goes for test, still the same results.

 

 

P.S. I don't recall if the lights have always been on as I don't have much reason to look there, but I don't recall it so.

 

[mumboking]

On 24/12/2015 at 11:47 AM, Xiron said:

Edit: Also, under health in my BIOS it says System1 Fan: N/A

 

Edit 2: Tried connecting it to where the cpu goes for test, still the same results.

I guess the fan is broken then.

[Fluffy Cupcake]

News update: I got got a new fan and it works, so everything is in perfect working order now. Thank you all for your help!

[aidenpons]

Xiron and I figured it would be better to bump this topic than for me to create a new one - anyway -

 

 

Our family has decided that my computer needs an upgrade (finally! :D) As it stands, it has

a) an overheating problem

b) 4GB RAM of which about 1-2 GB is gobbled up by services/background programs

c) 2 cores at 2.4 GHz, and

d) one of the most rubbish graphics cards there is - only supports DX9 and isn't supported on Win7.

 

Anyway, we've decided that it's going to get an upgrade. The overheating problem can be fixed by using a spare computer we have around that is otherwise completely useless except for the fact that its cooling system actually works. (Done by fans, not water or anything special like that).

 

We plan to replace:

1) Motherboard / GPU (they seem to come together in a package and apparently they need to be the same design)

2) RAM

3) CPU

4) Case (but we can do that ourselves so no need to think about it)

 

We've decided that we'd like 16GB RAM simply as future-proofing. Other than that we're a bit clueless in the CPU core department - how valuable is another core compared to a 0.5 GHz increase - and we're utterly clueless when it comes to graphics cards, all we know is "the current one sucks."

 

Can somebody clarify the motherboard / GPU thingy? What is a GPU, exactly? Does it need the same company that made the motherboard?

Do we need special power supplies, considering that the case we're using was made in around 2006 ish? Will any cables be outdated?

 

 

 

Is it worth our while getting a bundle? Should we try to source parts individually? (We'll probably need to do that for the 16GB RAM)? Is there anything else utterly important I need to know?

 

 

Or is it worth our while just getting another new computer - box and all - and being done with that? We don't really want to do that because it would mean throwing a computer away - our family is ecologically friendly and quite frankly, we'd prefer - not need, merely prefer - to upgrade rather than replace.

 

And what is this strange thing called overclocking? Will it make things explode randomly? Are there any other tips & tricks I should know about?

 

 

As far as budget is concerned, we'd like this computer to be able to last for a good 5-10 years or so (we keep computers around for a long time). We don't need the current state-of-the-art but what we do need is something durable. So far, for nearly 10 years, this has been durable (to us, maybe nobody else).

I haven't really specified a price range - we're so clueless we don't know where we should be looking. I can, however, say that $1000 is probably too much. Probably.

 

(You'll notice the usage of the word "we" - it's our family's decision).

 

 

 

What, in essence, is worth getting?

[Fluffy Cupcake]

I can see the first questions now: What's the budget?

We can't tell you what's good to get if we don't have a price range.

 

Edit: You edited it in, I see.

[Arthuriel]

I agree with Xiron: We need to know the budget range. I know, that you edited it in, but if 1000 (US?) Dollar is too much then what is the right price? Or does depend more on the question of "We will pay more, if it lasts longer"? (Since you mentioned longevity).

Other question: What do you want to do on your computer? Since you mentioned, that the hardware doesn't have to be state of the art, it means, that the games, that you are playing, don't require that.

I guess, that there are more questions out there like "How quiet should it be?" or "How big should the case be?" (just as an example to make sure, that you get the computer, that you need for an affordable price).

 

About the problems of your current computer:

-the overheating problem is probably caused by dust. That can be solved by using airspray, holding the fan(s) in place (and maybe going outside to remove the dust). A soft brush could also be helpful.

-4GB and a dualcore CPU (probably without hyperthreading).I understand your issue: I had a similar situation with my old hardware and that was already one of the better solutions, that was possible with the old mainboard.

-woa, the graphics situation sounds bad. I think, that even a card in the range of 75-150 $ would be a huge improvement.

 

Some notes (sorry, if I only post notes and not the hardware, that you should buy, but these are some things, that you should know or consider):

-GPU is the abbrevation for graphics processing unit. It's often used as a shorter term for graphics card (there are graphics cards with two or more GPUs, but usually it's only one)

-Motherboard and GPU don't (have to) come in a package

-if you replace the case, mainboard, cpu and gpu, you already replaced most of the parts a computer consists of^^ (In that case I wonder, if buying a complete pc may be the better option, but it also depends on the fact, if you want to build/upgrade your own computer or not)

-I would also recommend a new power supply (the abbrevation is PSU), when you update the other parts. Stuff like capacitors (also called caps) in a PSU and other hardware age, which means, that it will get less reliable and/or that the components of the computer get the wrong voltages etc. (and that will shorten their life span)

It's possible to replace the caps, but you need someone with time, skill etc. to do that (since it can be dangerous working on a power supply since the components like capacitors can still have an electrical charge in them), but in the end of the day the PSU is still on the technological level of 2006(?) (and the requirements of the computer hardware have changed).

-the "0,5Ghz"-thing depends on what applications you are using and what processor generations/architecture you are comparing. The so called intructions per cycle are important in that case. Basicly that means, that a newer 2GHz CPU can still get more done than an old 3GHz CPU from ages ago in the same time.

-the "one more core"-thing: Some stuff (like an old LEGO game) can only use one core/thread on a computer. Other tasks like rendering a picture can really make use of many threads*

-overclocking means, that you run a component (like the CPU, GPU or RAM) run at a faster speed than the original (maximum) one to get a better performance. Usually you need better cooling, power supply and components for that, but it depends on the degree of overclocking (from mild to extreme overclocking).

 

*how do I explain a thread? I don't really know, how to do so. I will try it anyway: Sometimes you can see on internet, how a CPU is advertised with the so called hyperthreading. In that case a dualcore CPU has two cores, but four threads. A dual core CPU without that would only have two threads. Usually hyperthreading makes better use of the cores from what I remember. Hopefully someone else can explain it better though^^