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Petition to undo the forum "upgrade"


Fush
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Do you support undoing the forum "upgrade"?  

25 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you support undoing the forum "upgrade"?

    • Yes
      4
    • No
      15
    • Maybe so
      3
    • I don't know
      2
    • Can you repeat the question?
      1


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I'm sorry Cirevam, I know you worked hard on upgrading the forums, but it's just not worth it. I haven't seen any improvements since the change, the only thing I've seen are problems. The formatting on older posts is completely broken, and the post editor is impossible to work with. Now whatever other things have changed, I don't know, but the most important thing on a forum is to post and read other's posts- and these two most important things are worse off after the update. Everything else is purely cosmetic.

I hate to do this to you, but could you PLEASE put the forum back the way it was. I'm begging you.

Edited by Fushigisaur
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"Bringing back the old features" would entail reverting to the old forum software, which is what I am proposing we do. Cire didn't just throw a new skin on the forums are change some settings, it was a complete software migration. The "old features" are gone not because they have been manually disabled, but because the new forum software does not support them at all.

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Needs a third option: No.

In all truthfulness, the update was not a simple flip of a switch. IP.Board is a licensed software that Cyrem (not Cirevam) buys. He has put money into this new IP.Board version. Cyrem can't just "restore" the old software because it's tied to a license key, and that key is now only valid for this version. Installing this required server configuration and updates, meaning more money and time spent performing the changes.

Also, we are technically using a beta version of the software. IPS v4 is now out (released in June), but we upgraded in April, so things in the final version are presumably better, but Cyrem has yet to update to the release (and I doubt that is a simple "extract zip contents and upload").

Further, did I mention that Cyrem works at IPS, has school work to do, lives a life, and manages RRU, not to mention probably other stuff? He's been flooded with work/school for a while and has not had the time to get RRU back up to speed. We didn't even have an RRU anniversary party this year. That kinda says how busy he has been. Also, a good amount of the forum features (IDK how much) he wrote himself, and he would have to rewrite them for IPS v4.

I'm sure Cyrem had reasons to upgrade RRU to a beta software. I doubt it was something he did lightly, considering this is an active forum. However, he had good faith that we could endure through the bugs and issues until he could update to the final build. We've done it so far. Yes, I'm annoyed by them too at times (the post editor is unusable on mobile), but hopefully soon Cyrem will find enough time to bless us with an updated version of IPS.

Until then, we just have to patiently deal with the issues. The damage is done. Broken topics won't fully be restored by reverting the software, even if it could be easily reverted. If you see a broken topic and the author is active, good grief, why not ask them to fix it? They might not even know it is broken. We can get through this. So far, we've done just fine. :)

Edited by le717
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I know that upgrading the forum was no easy task, and I feel terrible asking Cire to just throw all that effort away, but I've not seen ANY improvements from it. And even if there were any, it's pretty meaningless when it makes posting difficult since posting is the primary function of a forum. And it's not because we're in beta, the final version of the software has the exact same terrible editor. It won't get better if we just ride it out, if we keep running this software it's going to remain just as bad.

I know I'm asking a lot, but I just can't put up with it anymore. I rode it out for as long as I could, hoping things would improve, but the straw that broke the camel's back was Pereki's LEGO magazines topic.

The OP is COMPLETELY broken now, and I don't think it would even be possible to fix it with the new editor, especially given the length of the post and the amount of links it contains.

I'm not exaggerating when I say how terrible the new post editor is, it's near impossible to do anything other than plain text anymore. Any software that forces an editor this bad is NOT worth using, regardless of what else it offers, and as I've said I haven't even seen ANY improvements at all.  

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I've managed to make do with the new editor. Sure, it can be a little buggy but I've never come across something I couldn't fix with a post-edit. I'm actually offended that there isn't a "No" option for this poll. I understand where you're coming from, but I stand by what I've said before about this update being overall for the better. And as le said, we're kind of stuck with it anyway.

Besides, I like the new look of the forum!

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what about that you can SWITCH between both version, however. this requires again, annoying bugs and fixing of course. But indeed, old post are a bit too... old for this site.
so if you're able to switch between versions, both parties are happy. Myself? i'm happy with the new version, but the old post are a bit too buggy.

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The OP is COMPLETELY broken now, and I don't think it would even be possible to fix it with the new editor, especially given

 the length of the post and the amount of links it contains.

Yeah I'm definitely not gonna touch that. The good news is that unless you wanted to read my commentary, all the magazine stuff I've done is here and here.

 

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Drill Master

This new layout is ~ok I guess. A few things that bug me are

  • I can't view the desktop site on my phone anymore (but I think Google is to blame for that)
  • The mobile version layout is weird. It puts all the side bar boxes (Recent Posts, Moods, Blogs, Images, Popular Contributors, and the Statistics) at the bottom of the page, after the list of members online. You have to scroll all the way down to see what's new on the forum. I think at least the posts and blogs should be at the top, and everything else can go before the names.
  • All of the â€” that shows up in older topics. There's even one in my signature.

I'm still growing used to it. so I'm not going to say Yes or No on the matter, but it does have some quirks.

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The only thing I miss is the raw text editor (as opposed to the WYSIWIG one we use today), and that's because I had more control over formatting. Everything else works fine for the most part (apart from broken links that will probably have to be fixed manually and —).

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Quisoves Potoo

On one hand, I sympathize with Fushi here. On the other, the editor is by no means insurmountable. I post easily enough with it. And while I liked the old status updates, they're hardly a sine qua non of RRU.

There's also another factor I feel is being overlooked. Security. Broken formatting in old topics is regrettable, but almost certainly preferable to losing those topics (ala BZPower) to an attack on the website's server.

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what about that you can SWITCH between both version

As I explained, you can't just "switch" between them. It is server-side software. You can't just make a toggle switch and some users use one software version and others the other version. It is not possible on a technical level.

This new layout is ~ok I guess. A few things that bug me are

  • I can't view the desktop site on my phone anymore (but I think Google is to blame for that)
  • The mobile version layout is weird. It puts all the side bar boxes (Recent Posts, Moods, Blogs, Images, Popular Contributors, and the Statistics) at the bottom of the page, after the list of members online. You have to scroll all the way down to see what's new on the forum. I think at least the posts and blogs should be at the top, and everything else can go before the names.
  • All of the â€” that shows up in older topics. There's even one in my signature.

I'm still growing used to it. so I'm not going to say Yes or No on the matter, but it does have some quirks.

  • There is no more mobile site. Previously, different markup and styling was served depending on the site version selected. The site uses the new and better method called responsive design where the same stuff is served but adapts to different screen sizes. You see this design method on most big sites (and new sites are almost exclusively responsive). It is not Google's fault.
  • Agreed, there are some layout ordering issues, but all that can be fixed.
  • I almost think this was the cause of a database conversion error. This is totally a guess on my part, but there were probably database changes that needed to be performed (again, a technical reason we can't use "revert" or "switch between" software versions) and in doing so stuff broke. It can't be fixed, you'll just have to edit them out (everyone does now signature edit permissions have been fixed, right?).

Poll fixed. Sorry, didn't think anyone would take it so seriously.

You make a serious topic like this and you don't expect people to take the accompanying poll seriously? Uuuuuuuhhhhhh

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I stand by what I've said before about this update being overall for the better.

Would you mind explaining this stance? Name one thing that is actually better after the update. I'm serious, cause I can't think of anything.

I see people saying that there is no reason to revert because the new forum is "fine." Well the old forum was fine too, only it didn't have a broken post editor. Unless the new forum is BETTER, then there is no reason to have to put up with a broken post editor. And while the post editor may be the only issue, it is a MAJOR issue as far as I'm concerned. 

Look, I understand that reverting to the old forum may be a literal impossibility. That's a good point, and if it's the case then this is all pointless and we'll just have to put up with it. But the fact that everyone but me would RATHER have the new forum than the old one if given the option, is a little frustrating. Overall I'm a bit disappointed by the negative response to this topic and almost wish I had never posted it. 

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I stand by what I've said before about this update being overall for the better.

Would you mind explaining this stance? Name one thing that is actually better after the update. I'm serious, cause I can't think of anything.

No problem. For starters, visually I think the forum is much improved. The colour scheme is similar to its predecessor while the tones and shapes are more... Snazzy, or modern, for lack of a better word. The WYSIWYG editor may prove frustrating for some but I've found it useful for writing tutorials and posts, even if it does bug out the first time I post anything. Plus I think the iconography on the forum, in particular in the editor's toolbar, looks nicer. As le717 said the site is also a lot more compatible with browsers, looking the same on a mobile site as on a PC. The chatbox allows for simultaneous public and private chat, and we also get to edit images' details after uploading them which I don't think we could do before. That's just some of the benefits off the top of my head. The only real downside I can think of is simply that the new editor can be a little difficult to use. Granted, the editor is a rather fundamental part of the forum software, but many have managed to overcome its shortcomings.

 

Overall I'm a bit disappointed by the negative response to this topic and almost wish I had never posted it. 

No no, don't say that. There's no reason to remove this topic, I think it has generated some decent discussion into the matter even if the response hasn't been quite what you'd expected.

  • Like 4
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I'm sorry Cirevam, I know you worked hard on upgrading the forums, but it's just not worth it.

Grapheme/Cyrem did it, not me. He owns and manages the forum. I just help.

 

Needs a third option: No.

In all truthfulness, the update was not a simple flip of a switch. IP.Board is a licensed software that Cyrem (not Cirevam) buys. He has put money into this new IP.Board version. Cyrem can't just "restore" the old software because it's tied to a license key, and that key is now only valid for this version. Installing this required server configuration and updates, meaning more money and time spent performing the changes.

Also, we are technically using a beta version of the software. IPS v4 is now out (released in June), but we upgraded in April, so things in the final version are presumably better, but Cyrem has yet to update to the release (and I doubt that is a simple "extract zip contents and upload").

Pretty much everything le said is correct. One of the big problems is that there is a lack of IP.Board v4 plugins available, and some that exist are stupidly expensive for what little they do. Grapheme has been writing some on his own but he doesn't have a lot of time. There is a lot of life stuff he's dealing with right now, some bad things and some REALLY good things, but it's not my place to say.

PM him if you have questions or complaints. I can't do anything about how the forum looks. I don't have the knowledge and I don't own it.

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Le717 and Cire have pretty much answered in my behalf.

There are many reasons why the upgrade was done, most are technical. It's not possible to revert. I haven't removed the upgrade notice because it's quite obvious the forum isn't done and there's still plenty of work I've got to do on it. And yes I have not had much time in my life these past months, it's been a bit of a roller coaster.

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Car CrazeXVI

Yes, I don't like:

  • This new editor. Where's the Turn BBCode Off button?
  • The Gallery. I can't mass edit anymore, and images are sorted by recently edited, which ****ed up the order of my images.

But I'm not about to complain about it, because Cyrem seems rather Spent X_X and inactive for someone who isn't busy. So, like before, I'm just going to mind my own business and wait for him to sort it out, however long that may take.

 

lol malcolm in the middle

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