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GeoTool


sheepandshepherd
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  • 1 month later...

I started using this and I never realized how some maps that seem huge, like Frozen Frenzy, are actually pretty small. This will really help with getting a sense of scale when making new maps since mine tend to be on the large side. Thanks mate.

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  • 5 months later...
sheepandshepherd

Surprise update! I dropped this for a while when one of the graphics libraries I use for it stopped working. But now I need a break from my other project, and I've learned a lot since last year, so it was a good time to finally get this update taken care of. Here it is, GeoTool Alpha 2.

I meant to just go straight to beta once all the new features were done, but there was a pretty terrible bug in Alpha 1 that I missed. I was enabling OpenGL3's 'forward compatibility mode', which made it incompatible with its own shaders. Not sure how it even worked at all for some of us. But I turned that off and also updated the shaders to GL3, so hopefully no more shader problems now (as long as you don't have a really old video card).

GeoTool can finally edit maps now, not just view them. An old GIF of terrain editing (I don't have video recording software on Windows, sorry):

gallery_337_481_524553.gif

Not everything is finished yet in this version, but it can edit and save SURF and HIGH maps. Let me know if you find more bugs -- there's probably plenty of them. I'll update the main post tomorrow(ish).

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Fluffy Cupcake

Whooohooohoo yeah! Just what we needed, an external 3D map editor!

The camera movement could be a bit smoother. Never mind, there is a bug that sometimes after biome changing the program indefinitely lags afterwards, unless you repeatedly change biomes until you get a hit on a non-lag load.

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sheepandshepherd

Never mind, there is a bug that sometimes after biome changing the program indefinitely lags afterwards, unless you repeatedly change biomes until you get a hit on a non-lag load.

I haven't figured this one out yet. Does it only start when switching biomes, or also when editing the map? I'll try simplifying the biome-switching code for the next version anyway, I think it's causing problems by rebuilding the entire map mesh.

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Fluffy Cupcake

Does it only start when switching biomes, or also when editing the map?

I haven't done enough map editing to see yet. :P

*does more editing* Yup, it happens there too.

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sheepandshepherd

That should help me narrow it down, thanks! Maybe this will help: update Alpha 3 no longer wastes loads of memory when modifying the mesh, and it doesn't need to change the mesh at all when changing biomes or hiding the ceiling tiles.

Changelog for Alpha 2 and 3:

Alpha 2:

  • Terrain and heightmap can now be edited
  • Disabled OpenGL Forward Compatibility Mode, which was mistakenly turned on
  • Updated shaders to GLSL 1.30
  • Status and errors get saved to log.txt

Alpha 3:

  • Mesh-rebuilding functions now all reuse their memory instead of throwing it away and reallocating
  • Changing biome no longer rebuilds the meshes
  • Added FPS and mesh counter (toggled with F key)
  • Maps can be opened by dragging their icon into the GeoTool window
  • Added 'raise' and 'lower' modes to heightmap editor
  • PS1 maps can be loaded from the Terrain > Load > 'PS1 Map...' button
  • Left console window enabled temporarily for viewing error messages

 Edit: there's a PS1 map importer now too, but since I don't have the PS1 game, I can't test this one. Let me know if it's converting any of the terrains incorrectly.

Edited by sheepandshepherd
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Oh man, I've been waiting for a map editor like this for a long time. Grapheme's is good most of the time, but heightmaps were always a pain. This will be a huge help.

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Fluffy Cupcake

It seems to be gone yes.

Just a note, the movement keys are relative to the map, not of the rotation of the camera, which can make movement a bit confusing. ;)

 

Q. Is visuals for objects and/or buildings coming next?

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sheepandshepherd

Just a note, the movement keys are relative to the map, not of the rotation of the camera, which can make movement a bit confusing. ;)

 

Q. Is visuals for objects and/or buildings coming next?

Fixed for the next version. I forgot about that bug cause I mostly use the minimap to move :P

I'd rather improve and finish up what I have first, but after the beta version next week I'll add objects/buildings. The hard part is getting 3D models of them -- I can't import the .lwo/.lws files from LRR (only the .X models that a few of the buildings have), so someone (maybe me) will have to make new ones. But I can make them floaty cubes until then, hehe.

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Let me know if you want me to convert some stuff for you to some other format. I have Lightwave and I'm willing to support this project.

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Fluffy Cupcake

Let me know if you want me to convert some stuff for you to some other format. I have Lightwave and I'm willing to support this project.

If you actually somehow own that holy shizzles, the liscense for one copy that isn't student and such is $1000 (unless the price sky-rocketed). Although, I know to be honest anyone can download lightwave trial and easily use it past trial date. They don't even stop you.

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sheepandshepherd

This heat makes it hard to think, ugh :rf:

I switched over to a combined map format that's much easier to work with than LRR's annoying split-up map parts. It can load up all the map components (but not objects) now. Still need to make the editors for the new things, but that'll be in a later version.

Question about the dugg map: which ground types does LRR allow under hidden caverns? Can't get LRR to run on my Win8 currently, but IIRC water and lava are allowed, but paths and rubble aren't (they just disappear). And how about erosion (the even-numbered kind that starts right away)?

Also, is there a maximum map size?

Edited by sheepandshepherd
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You're right, paths are definitely not allowed. Rubble can be easily made by creating wall structures that violate the 2x2 rule, as they will collapse when the cavern is revealed. Some erosion can appear in hidden caverns. The recharge seam's sparkle effect does not display properly if it started in a hidden cavern, and will spawn on the ceiling instead of on top of the wall.

I don't believe there's a size limit for maps. Grapheme's latest map creator can go up to 100x100, which is ridiculously large. I'd imagine there's some unintended limit, like 255x255, but I'd really not like to go that far.

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Fluffy Cupcake

I'd imagine there's some unintended limit, like 255x255, but I'd really not like to go that far.

Your mission is to find and collection 1 energy crystal. ALL THE WAY ACROSS THIS LARGE FREAKIN MAP.

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I'd imagine there's some unintended limit, like 255x255, but I'd really not like to go that far.

Your mission is to find and collection 1 energy crystal. ALL THE WAY ACROSS THIS LARGE FREAKIN MAP.

Get your oranges and a book to read, because it is time for a 5 hour orange test! :D

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Fluffy Cupcake

As well, the air in this area is VERY limited, so move quick raider!

 

I'd imagine there's some unintended limit, like 255x255, but I'd really not like to go that far.

I just checked, and it goes up to 256.

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I'd imagine there's some unintended limit, like 255x255, but I'd really not like to go that far.

I just checked, and it goes up to 256.

To clarify, the maximum number is 255, but 0 is used too. There's no reason to skip it. :)

Just saying, in case someone couldn't understand. Plus, I'm feeling like posting something. =P

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Fluffy Cupcake

I just checked, and it goes up to 256.

To clarify, the maximum number is 255, but 0 is used too. There's no reason to skip it. :)

Hey hey, don't look at me. I'm just the messenger! I say what I was told, not the specifics. =P

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sheepandshepherd

Hehe. Well, I'll probably limit to 100x100 as well, since that's about where the performance gets choppy for me. Even a 105x105 map drops down to 24 FPS. Unless anyone actually wants to make insanely large crystal-fetching maps.

 

I ask because the map width/height block in the files looks like this (from a 6x6 map):

0600 0000 0600 0000

Those are 4-byte (aka 32-bit) integers, so unless LRR prevents it or crashes, you could theoretically make a map up to 4,294,967,295 x 4,294,967,295 :P. I only use the first byte for each, which limits it to 255x255.

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Fluffy Cupcake

Hehe. Well, I'll probably limit to 100x100 as well, since that's about where the performance gets choppy for me.

You limited it already, didn't ya? I was wondering why I couldn't open my 256x256 map in your editor. :P

Anyway, if someone has a more beastly computer and can support it, I don't see why you should restrict them.

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Pathfinding for raiders goes to brick on bigger maps, like Rocky Horror, which I think is less than 50x50. You're just asking for idleness syndrome at 100x100. It's not about the performance of your computer, it's about how pathfinding time gets much worse as you give raiders more paths to explore.

And no one wants to play a ridiculous 256x256 map anyways. It already takes hours to complete smaller maps, even at 300% game speed.

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Fluffy Cupcake

Well I tested a 256x256 map with a simple collect 5 EC goal (replaced mission one) across the map with a twisty-crazy one way path (but with lots of drilling and caverns in between) and I didn't really notice anything abnormal. There was a few (not all) ZZZing Raiders who responded after being given an order, but that's about it.

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one way path

This is why you didn't run into issues. Larger maps need to have few, distinct branches instead of wide open areas or raiders will start to react more slowly. They probably use some weird backwards weighting system because they almost always go for the newest jobs of a given priority (from the priorities list) first, which are usually further away. I'm not sure exactly how raiders check for available jobs -- I think they scan every single square as their reaction times decrease when lots of caverns are revealed -- but when they check they will look through every possible valid job and choose the worst one. Hence why we have memes about their stupid actions like getting the furthest ore and always running to clear rubble that's on the other side of the map in Water Lot of Fun. I guess "pathfinding" is the wrong term and "job searching" is more accurate, since their actual pathfinding is pretty decent.

With that in mind, a better way to rate maps for performance is "how many ground tiles will there be after mining everything?" as that will be the worst-case scenario.

I should probably not hijack sheep's thread any longer.

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