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Let's Make a Community Project


McJobless

  

32 members have voted

  1. 1. PART ONE: What Game Do We Mod?

    • LEGO Rock Raiders
    • LEGO Racers 1
    • Other (Describe in the comments)
      0


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Quisoves Potoo

Speaking of this modding thing, it looks like LRR and LR are tied for votes, who wants to flip the coin?

There are still some regulars who have not voted. someswedish comes to mind.

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Fluffy Cupcake

There are still some regulars who have not voted. someswedish comes to mind.

I guess I still need to vote (other was temporal really). If it was LR2, I'd vote that for sure. It is on par, if not further ahead in modability than LR. The only single thing that can't be done in LR2 currently is models, and animation for the models.
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Right now I'm dealing with:

  1. Wounds to my leg and head
  2. Applying for more jobs since STILL nothing has come up
  3. Working on college assessments
  4. Working on a small side programming project.

I should be good to come back and get us started on the first real phase of this project very soon, but at the moment I'm going to need some time to deal with a few issues.

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Right now I'm dealing with:

  • Wounds to my leg and head
  • Applying for more jobs since STILL nothing has come up
  • Working on college assessments
  • Working on a small side programming project.
I should be good to come back and get us started on the first real phase of this project very soon, but at the moment I'm going to need some time to deal with a few issues.
Ouch. What wounded you? Sorry for not quoting properly, my computer is down so im using my tablet.
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I'm going to say something else here:

 

With LRR we have a lot more freedom. We can make custom levels, custom objects, make more than 25 levels, change nigh on everything, etc...

More specifically, we have an enormous amount of freedom with the NERPs scripter: not every level has to be 'collect x of dadadadada.' Add that to a bunch of new textures, new models, and completely redesigned levels and you practically [read: not really :P] a new game!

 

Whereas with LR we don't have that much. All we can really edit are textures and various files containing various stuff (can't be bothered typing it out again :P). We can't create new tracks; we can't even change the AI models! So we're stuck with the same outline of the same track, and I'm not sure how easy it is to actually create a scenic model that sits on the side of the road. So we're stuck with hieroglyphs and castles and boats. (Ok, some of those might be textures) So it's really just the same game, unlike RR in which (as said above) we can nearly make a new game. And you have another sentence beginning with 'So.' So... :P

 

BUT: bu-bu-bu-but: LR is a lot more stable. Go above a certain complexity for the map and it will crash. In some [read: a lot of ;P] ways our freedom is limited by this. We can't have every map a HUMONGOUS behemoth because it is a pain to play. If we keep on rebooting LRR for fifteen months then yes, we would probably get past that level once. :P However - and I'm using sooo many conjunctions here ( :P) - we could, I suppose, make something for the first half of a map: we semi-split a map into two parts. To access the second part, you bring a bunch of vehicles/raiders/buildings to a certain area and you win that level. The second bit would be continuing. Or it could be something like having a giant "level" where one half is one level and you get a more advanced base (as you would have built that) and a couple [read: a lot] of vehicles.

Slightly related to this is the interface: the RR interface is pretty much hardcoded to 640x480 but frankly I don't see what's really all that wrong with that: the 'Zoom Out' thingy can be quite helpful.

 

AND: RR modding is about two-hundred-and-fifty times easier than LR. Sure, we can mod all those files, but about five of us actually know what all of those things actually do. Whereas (another conjunction :P) in RR there is the Lego.cfg where you can change where everything is located (who said anything about levels being under Levels/GameLevels/LevelXX?) and you don't need to muck around with a whole load of strings. I have to say, this is partly due to better tools for RR: we could make better tools for LR but we don't really know how all the files work.

 

So yeah, I vote for RR because it's better known and (at time of writing) we can change far more. Oh, eventually someone will make a Track Editor that can finally hack those .GDB files, but frankly we aren't planning this to start ten years in the future when neither RR or LR will actually still run on those machines. :P (There's probably something that we'll think up :P)

 

N.B. I'm pretty sure someone will correct me on at least ten percent of this information, especially about LR.

 

This has been your daily rant for the day, proudly brought to you by DepressingBridge Aidenpons. :P

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Quisoves Potoo

With LRR we have a lot more freedom. We can make custom levels, custom objects, make more than 25 levels, change nigh on everything, etc...

More specifically, we have an enormous amount of freedom with the NERPs scripter: not every level has to be 'collect x of dadadadada.' Add that to a bunch of new textures, new models, and completely redesigned levels and you practically [read: not really :P] a new game!

 

Whereas with LR we don't have that much. All we can really edit are textures and various files containing various stuff (can't be bothered typing it out again :P). We can't create new tracks; we can't even change the AI models! So we're stuck with the same outline of the same track, and I'm not sure how easy it is to actually create a scenic model that sits on the side of the road. So we're stuck with hieroglyphs and castles and boats. (Ok, some of those might be textures) So it's really just the same game, unlike RR in which (as said above) we can nearly make a new game. And you have another sentence beginning with 'So.' So... :P

This is, on the contrary, exactly the reason why I think that we should attempt a LEGO Racers Mod. We already know so much about modding Rock Raiders, so a community project focused on that game is far less necessary. Sure, it would be easier to utilize the RRU community to make a Wild West game on the Rock Raiders system, but far from necessary.

 

Modding Lego Racers, on the other hand, is a much more difficult task without the community. We have far less experience in making anything beyond superficial changes, so having a group seems almost necessary to prevent the project from being insurmountable. Furthermore, the prospect of exploring new modding territory is much more exciting, thus making the continued support of the project by the community more likely.

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There is no guarantee that the members who do join will know anything about file decryption/extraction/what-have-you. For all we know, at the end of the day it could be a bunch of people with some sound, modeling and texture skills, and that's all.

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Quisoves Potoo

There is no guarantee that the members who do join will know anything about file decryption/extraction/what-have-you. For all we know, at the end of the day it could be a bunch of people with some sound, modeling and texture skills, and that's all.

Good point. Perhaps voting should be postponed until we have a good idea of the skill-set that will be applied to this project.

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  • 1 month later...
Fluffy Cupcake

Um, so what's going on with this. Everyone didn't forgot about it already did they? I'm pretty sure we can get started with something, at least if the RRU Tower themed mod is actually what we're going for. There has been no change in votes or anything, so I'm pretty sure it is safe to say we can get started with this RRs overhaul.

Tbh I did forgot until I stumbled back onto it.

 

I'd honestly prefer a Racers overhaul since we haven't done one yet.

Who says we can't start a community project #2 after this one is done? ;)

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I want to say something that's been on my mind for a while:
 
 

enforce deadlines,

 
How?
 
How can we ENFORCE deadlines?
 
Just think for a minute. What can we actually do to get somebody who has been slacking to get it finished?

(DEADLINE WAS ENFORCED FOR THIS POST)

Edited by jamesster
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Fluffy Cupcake
How can we ENFORCE deadlines?

Enslave everyone and ban the ones from RRU that don't meet the deadlines! :P

Yes this is a joke post. Don't take it seriously.

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I guess I'm a little late to this, but I'll lend my two cents.

 

I'm in the "I'd like a LR mod, but modding is too tedious/restricted for a decent overhaul, hence RR" boat (the guy who named that vessel was subsequently crushed by landslides). While a LEGO Racers overhaul would be nice, changing the AI paths - which is perhaps the most integral part of the game, being as it is a racing game - at the moment is just too laborious for people to stay interested, I think. Whereas I can see much more interest and freedom in a Rock Raiders mod.

 

Going with my vote for RR, I very much like the idea of the RRU Tower* and featuring RRU members as characters in it. To further this, I think it would be great if each level had a small team of RRU members to start with, and then generic workers can be teleported down later. This way we could both enhance the RRU members to be much better skilled than generic workers, and also the potential loss of a member would be much more impacting to the game.

 

 

As for actual modding though, going from memory I think we have a few model editors, a few musicians, several coders and several texture modders. Whereas with LR there aren't many people who have done/are willing invest time in path modding, the main aspect of it.

 

So... Yes, I'm up for this, let's draw up a design document, kick everyone up the plastic backside and get this done right!

 

 

*On that subject, with regards to the level selection screen... Can we flip it by changing all the positions, so that you actually start with levels at the bottom and work your way up?

 


EDIT: It just occurred to me that, regardless of what game we choose, there will always be a problem with texture modding in a community project: How do we deal with different texture artists coming along with their own styles and working together?

 

I can see three solutions:

1) Mish-Mash: Just let everyone work on their own textures and slap it all together.

2) Grouped: Each texture artists works on a specific element - environment, buildings, entities, user interface, etc.

3) Combined: In the original Star Wars films, the star destroyers were physical models painted by artists. However, with so many ships a team was required, which meant that each individual would be painting slightly differently. To deal with this they each worked on a specific part, then moved somewhere else while someone else added to that part, etc. So for texture modding, perhaps one person adds the background of the texture, next someone adds basic shape, then details, and so on.

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EDIT: It just occurred to me that, regardless of what game we choose, there will always be a problem with texture modding in a community project: How do we deal with different texture artists coming along with their own styles and working together?

 

I can see three solutions:

1) Mish-Mash: Just let everyone work on their own textures and slap it all together.

2) Grouped: Each texture artists works on a specific element - environment, buildings, entities, user interface, etc.

3) Combined: In the original Star Wars films, the star destroyers were physical models painted by artists. However, with so many ships a team was required, which meant that each individual would be painting slightly differently. To deal with this they each worked on a specific part, then moved somewhere else while someone else added to that part, etc. So for texture modding, perhaps one person adds the background of the texture, next someone adds basic shape, then details, and so on.

 

This is why games have artistic directors. They have a mindset for the game and artists pass things by the director to get their approval before anything is added to the game. Unfortunately this doesn't work so well for a community project unless the potential director is highly respected by the community and everyone involved is willing to take criticism and prepared to change their works to fit the vision of the final product.

 

A bunch of that was mentioned in the first post. We'll have to decide if that's the best way to approach this.

  • Like 3
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*On that subject, with regards to the level selection screen... Can we flip it by changing all the positions, so that you actually start with levels at the bottom and work your way up?

We can do anything with the Level Selection screen. RockRaiderWolf proved here that FrontEndX and FrontEndY can actually be very large if you have a big enough LevelPick. And I think there's a line in the cfg talking about "LevelUnlockedAtNewGame" or something.

Add that to fully flexible LevelLinks and you have it.

 

Though the plan was to START from the top anyway, partly because less tedious scrolling and all the members are up the top and the bottom's the most damaged.

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  • 1 month later...
  • 1 month later...
Fluffy Cupcake

I'll get back to you. There's some stuff going on behind the scenes which I don't want to talk about just yet.

Two months later

 

Sooooooooooooooooooooooooo? :whistle:

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Fluffy Cupcake

Alright.

I bet you're probably thinking at the time of post: "Get off my back Xiron! I have things in life I need to attend to first!", as I tend to nag you about the voices and now this. :P


LegoRR - Zelda Overworld, I wonder what that could be.

 


Question about the replacing the training levels. Will we be making tutorials levels or something similar ourselves? Or will we assume that the player has knowledge of how to play RRs already?
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Or will we assume that the player has knowledge of how to play RR already?

 

Considering this forum is called "Rock Raiders" United and we'll be distributing it to people on here who own LRR and thus have played it....

 

Also, you can get rid of the Tutorial levels in the main Level Select screen (not the minor one that says "Tutorials" from the main menu) by mucking around with LevelLinks. As RockRaiderWolf showed, you can put more than 33 levels in the game and you can move them about.

 

The main menu Tutorials, as opposed to the ones on the Levelpicker, are actually different levels: you can make them reference different game files, so a common[-ish] thing to do is just rename the main menu Tutorial to Bonus Missions and stuff normal missions in the space left by the tutorials in the Levelpicker.

[/confusing]] l405G.jpg

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Fluffy Cupcake

[/confusing]] l405G.jpg

Except not. I clearly understood every word of that.

 

Considering this forum is called "Rock Raiders" United and we'll be distributing it to people on here who own LRR and thus have played it....

I figured as much.

 

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