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Let's Make a Community Project


McJobless

  

32 members have voted

  1. 1. PART ONE: What Game Do We Mod?

    • LEGO Rock Raiders
    • LEGO Racers 1
    • Other (Describe in the comments)
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Thanks Drill Master!

One of the things I've been working on recently is the concept of an RRU community project. I figure it would be a good way for the game designers to get some practice working in teams, and for us to just make something really cool and meaningful. I've really wanted to work alongside quite a few of you for a long while, so this would be a great chance to do something we might have some fun with.

 

So, let's make this a proposal topic. Before we can even make a project, we need to get a few things clear:

 

The Concept

RRU is (sort of) famous for its modding of classic games. Most of us have at least some experience in programming, design, graphics, audio etc. Therefore, modding seems to be the most desirable kind of project we can work on.

We need to decide on a few things, however:

  • What game do we mod? RRU has tools and knowledge to do a pretty complete overhaul of at least 2 games (Rock Raiders and Racers). We need to figure out what interests the community most, and also what more of us have. We can absolutely get around members not having a certain game, but it'll help if most of us have a copy.
  • What theme do we go for? Candy Raiders was not successful for several reasons, but mostly due to disinterest. One personal reason I had for not being involved was that I didn't like the theme. I figure that we, as a community, need to find a theme we all can enjoy. I personally think we should maybe do RRU as a whole, making members into characters, but you guys can discuss.
  • How do we make the mod better than the original game? We want this mod to be a bit like Baz's Mod. It needs to be incredible enough to be memorable. Let's not just make some bland levels with a few new colours. Can we warp gameplay enough to be different? Can we balance the games in a way that's interesting? Can we make our knowledge of exploits and bugs turn these things into gameplay features?
I think the bulk of this topic will be used to discuss these points.

 

Organisation & Motivation

Another reason Candy Raiders probably failed was due to a lack of organisation. Nobody felt motivated to do anything as time went on, deadlines (if they even existed) started to slip and eventually the project was left to rot.

We need to treat this as something professional. Not because we want to make money or make us hate it, but to try and keep us from burning out. Let's get people motivated and push them to actually produce some sweet content for this project.

What we'll need:

  • Project Lead: We need somebody clearly in charge, specifically to manage the community, enforce deadlines, receive all the content and work on blending it together (a "master copy" if you will), do QA on the project and blah blah blah. I propose we find somebody with plenty of time on their hand and is motivated. They don't need to be in charge of the designs or concepts or content. They just need to make sure the project is taking shape.
  • Creative Director: Design-by-Committee almost always ends horribly. It's important to make sure everybody's ideas are considered, but if there isn't some form of unified vision, the end product will appear inconsistent. We need somebody to have a clear idea of what they want and what's in the best interest of the community, and to strive to achieve that. They will work with the Project Lead and all of the community, taking their ideas and ultimately choosing what makes it and what doesn't. I propose we get an Admin or Moderator for this position, since they are really good at consistency, listening to multiple parties and management.
  • A clear hierarchy: Management is great, but the canon fodder will also need to have some dedicated positions. While it's good to have people doing a little bit of everything, for consistency sake, we should have people who focus on specific things, such as level designs, artists, musicians, audio engineers etc. It's alright if people want to pick up multiple positions, just so long as we distribute the roles carefully.
  • A clear Design Document WITH timeline: We need a powerful, specific design document that clearly outlines what we want to achieve, how we want to achieve it, and the specific deadlines we want to achieve these things by. This document should be the product of this topic. It will need to be managed by the Project Lead and Creative Director. I have multiple layouts and templates we can use once we've got some good ideas to go off.

 

I've got more to say, but I'll save it until I know you guys are ready and interested in working as a team. Skype and RRU will be helpful for communication, and Dropbox will be great for file sharing, and I'm sure there's many other services we can use.

 

So, what do you think? Is RRU ready to undertake a serious project? I think we are.

 

LEEEEEEEEEEEET'S MAKE!

Edited by McJobless
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Shadowblaze

LEEEEEEEEEEEET'S MAKE!

 

No need to rush, or we'll end like the (in)famous Leeroy Jenkins. :P

 

I would like to overhaul LR2, because it's my favourite game and as its physics are faulty it might need some tweaking. As we don't have enough knowledge to work on LR2 (where is the freaking code?), and as it wasn't one of the games that you suggested to mod anyway, I think we should go for LR. A professional overhaul for this game would be awesome: more powerups, more racetracks, different stuff. Yeah, I would like to see a LR overhaul, even if a LR2 one could do better think about reducing the Nemesis powerup cooldown... that is tempting.

 

As you probably have thought, I would like to do the music, and I'll try to make the SFX too if needed. Man, the main reason why I joined RRU is finally taking place!

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If we did the theme of RRU members, LR would fit well. We could use Fush's caricatures as a base for the minifigures. Out of curiosity, do the racers have "personalities" which affect their driving style (more aggressive/passive, use of powerups etc?) which we can mod?

I don't have a copy of LR1 yet, but if we go for this I'll buy one ASAP.

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Shadowblaze

Out of curiosity, do the racers have "personalities" which affect their driving style (more aggressive/passive, use of powerups etc?) which we can mod?

 

The bosses definitely do. If you copy pasted their AI on the normal racers, you would have "personalities". I also think that when messing with the AI paths, you can make the racers seem more tense if they, for example, steer harshly.

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Playing with the AI paths would be a lot of fun. I'd really like them to take advantage of shortcuts and use the entire length and width of the track. For example, on that very first level (pirate one, it's the only one in the demo), I'd like to see Racers go through the palm trees and hang wide on the corners to get the white bricks, blast their way into the shortcut etc etc.

Difficulty balance should be interesting because apparently you guys find the game easy, IIRC?

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Shadowblaze
Difficulty balance should be interesting because apparently you guys find the game easy, IIRC?

 

I'd say it can actually be challenging, but only if you don't use the warp. It's way too OP, the first thing to change should be how far the warp brings you, then we can focus on the AI. Ah, and another good idea would be increasing how far the warp shoots you depending on what position you are in. For example, if you are 8th, the warp should bring you, let's say, three times as far as when you are 1st.

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Is that possible, though? One thing we really can't afford doing is to get hooked on ideas that won't work.

I haven't been in the LR1 modding scene, so for all I know we have the ability to change it easy, but if it's hard-coded we need to forget it and find other ways around the issue.

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Shadowblaze

I haven't been in the LR1 modding scene, so for all I know we have the ability to change it easy, but if it's hard-coded we need to forget it and find other ways around the issue.

 

Neither have I, and I honestly don't know how much progress we have done. I just took a quick look, and I think that we can't do anything about that at the moment. The warp is probably linked to the AI paths, but the duration is probably hard coded. The solution is making the AI use the warps as frequently as the players do.

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Alternatively, IIRC there was something to do with powerup placement in the works a while back, so maybe we can make the green powerup particularly rare (have to go through longcuts which are hidden slightly, which also gives us the bonus of adding secret sections of the map for players to find)?

It'd be nice if one of the people with a heavy amount of knowledge on LR1 could join us right about now and give us both a nice big slap of knowledge. I know LegoRR got a topic about what can and can't be done; if there's one for Racers I'd like to see it, else it might be hand if that gets created ASAP.

One thing we should consider: I know the canon was an active hazard in the first level of Racers. Could we maybe introduce more of these interesting, dynamic props to spice up the challenge?

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Drill Master

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vkz8BLBJ9_I

 

I'd like to do the music as well, as it's what I do best. I don't have a copy of LR however. I can only do RR, and preferably, I'd like modding RR better (not much of a racing game fan). I have nothing but time, so I can get tracks done in a timely fashion. I have an idea that I wanted to try with my music anyway, and this seems like the perfect place to do so.

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Shadowblaze

Alternatively, IIRC there was something to do with powerup placement in the works a while back, so maybe we can make the green powerup particularly rare (have to go through longcuts which are hidden slightly, which also gives us the bonus of adding secret sections of the map for players to find)?

 

Making the powerups rare isn't a good idea, it would slow down the races dramatically and would make catch ups almost impossible. Making the white bricks rare, instead, is a good idea, so I think we should go with that. Thus, secret areas could be a place where you can get three white bricks in a row very quickly. Also, the AI should use the shortcuts and secret passageways too, as you suggested.

 

 

 

One thing we should consider: I know the canon was an active hazard in the first level of Racers. Could we maybe introduce more of these interesting, dynamic props to spice up the challenge?

 

Those things can be very frustrating. It would require a lot of thinking to make complex hazards, but yes, we could.

 

O.T.

Oh, hey, 300 posts!
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Could be a good solution. We'll absolutely need to test it to see what will work best, but at least it'll be better than the current setup.

As for story/theme, I suggested earlier:

McJobless: (16 July 2014 - 09:32 PM) If it's LegoRR, I figure we make it so you're trying to drill your way out of the collapse RRU tower

McJobless: (16 July 2014 - 09:33 PM) If it's LEGO Racers, you're a new forum user racing against the "kingpins" of the site

It's the very last thing we should be thinking of now, but I'd like to save that idea now instead of forgetting it.

Keep voting on the poll people!

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Drill Master

I like your idea of digging through the RRU tower for RR McJobless. Perhaps each level of the game could be a room of a person on the team. Say you have to cut through the debris and collect certain items pertaining to that particular member, or rescue lost members from the wreckage. Perhaps this:

 

 

The RRU Tower has suffered severe structural damage and has collapsed. Many members have made it out, but there are still some trapped inside. Your mission is to locate the missing members and get them out safely. Luckily, the transporter at the base of the tower is still intact. We will send you and your team down there to begin the rescue operation. Good luck!

 


or

 

Some of the members have lost valuable objects during the collapse of the RRU tower. They have made a request that you and your team go in and retrieve them. Careful though. The building is very unstable, and may need reinforcements. Be careful in there!

 

And the items (if it is possible to do this) could be things relevant to members. Perhaps something... oh I don't know... Like this:  :addictcookie:

 

Those are my starting suggestions, anyway.

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I like. Since we can do any number of custom raiders, having raiders that look just like Fush's drawings isn't out of the question. I know quite a few of us have Lightwave kicking around, and I'm slowly getting better at modeling, so we can certainly making new things appear.

What would the biome look like? I imagine we need to think about what the inside of RRU tower would be and then make it dirty and destroyed. Maybe we could replace the three current biomes with a "good", "average" and "wrecked" interiors, so as the players make their way to the top, the levels start to look a little cleaner since there was less damage? Or vice-versa?

And that way, the tutorial levels could all be clean, as if the player was being trained for the first time before RRU Tower collapses.


I personally voted for LegoRR since I think there's a lot more variation on gameplay we can do. We have access to the scripting system and a lot of gameplay elements and glitches that we can exploit.

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To help speed up voting, here's a poster promoting this project.

Added to the OP. Hopefully in a few hours as people start to get online, we'll see more activity and votes flow.
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Shadowblaze

I have found a simple evolution to your idea for the storyline, McJobless: You're stuck in the collapsed RRU Tower, ok, but as you try to exit you find that there is no way to leave without using some sort of over powered Chrome Crusher. So you venture in the underground part of RRU Tower, and then find that thing, along with some working equipment (the one in the destroyed tower sure doesn't work) which you can use to dig around. But you haven't got any purple energy crystals, necessary to power the machine, so you go in an expedition in the deepest depths of Planet U in search of this material. Then you find it, you get to the OP Chrome Crusher, and leave the tower!

 

By the way, we should do a different planet than Planet U. Otherwise, if we used the same tools as Rock Raiders', we would be able to smash the surface quite easily, another planet would justify the unbreakable surface.

 

And remember, different machines from Rock Raiders'! New designs, maybe new color schemes, as it's probably gonna be a different sector from Planet U's?

 

 

 

Looks like everyone wants LRR to be overhauled. Now, I couldn't agree more.

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but as you try to exit you find that there is no way to leave without using some sort of over powered Chrome Crusher.

I figure it'd be better to have the player "climbing" the tower, both as a sense of progression, and because that way "levels" becomes the right term. Also, how would we demonstrate this OP Chrome Crusher? We *could* do it in a cutscene, but players could just as easily skip over it and be confused. If we made reference to it in the Mission Briefing, players then might confused..."What OP Chrome Crusher?!"

Also, we haven't decided if want to leave the original vehicles yet. We might do entirely new ones.

So you venture in the underground part of RRU Tower, and then find that thing, along with some working equipment (the one in the destroyed tower sure doesn't work) which you can use to dig around. But you haven't got any purple energy crystals, necessary to power the machine, so you go in an expedition in the deepest depths of Planet U in search of this material. Then you find it, you get to the OP Chrome Crusher, and leave the tower!

The problem is that we can actually tie finding members to ingame objectives, since NERPs script can be used to check if the player has found a hidden raider, whereas finding objects is a little more difficult, unless you make them into a building/vehicle/unit as well.

Also, LegoRR PC only has one tier of crystals; green. That would mean purple crystals would have to be found in a cutscene. And, I'd much rather the player stay in the tower the entire time. I don't even think you can do more than 3 biomes, so it'd be pretty hard to balance a Planet U as well as RRU Tower.

 

By the way, we should do a different planet than Planet U. Otherwise, if we used the same tools as Rock Raiders', we would be able to smash the surface quite easily, another planet would justify the unbreakable surface.

RRU Tower is on Earth. I've got a whole topic on it and I'll probably link it some point soon.

 

And remember, different machines from Rock Raiders'! New designs, maybe new color schemes, as it's probably gonna be a different sector from Planet U's?

We'll decide on what the final line-up of in-game units will be soon enough.

 


I'm not trying to come off as antagonistic, and we might end up using your ideas, but I'd much rather have as much less reliance on the cutscenes and the "Rock Raiders canon" as we possibly can. The cutscenes, if we even decide to render some, should maybe offer jokes and a little insight into some of the characters. Rewards for playing/finishing the missions, but overall not extremely important for motivating the player to keep on going.

You'll remember that the original cutscenes were the same; they were jokes that offered a little insight to the characters and the world, but they didn't really give you much story, which was okay. The story came from the player's experience, which is what we should focus on.

BTW, we can actually give each RR member unit a "personality" by modifying their stats.

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Shadowblaze
I figure it'd be better to have the player "climbing" the tower, both as a sense of progression, and because that way "levels" becomes the right term. Also, how would we demonstrate this OP Chrome Crusher? We *could* do it in a cutscene, but players could just as easily skip over it and be confused. If we made reference to it in the Mission Briefing, players then might confused..."What OP Chrome Crusher?!"

 

If the tower is collapsed I can't see how we can climb it. Also, I said just "OP Chrome Crusher" because I wanted just to give the idea, not an official name or design or anything like that.

 

 

 

The problem is that we can actually tie finding members to ingame objectives, since NERPs script can be used to check if the player has found a hidden raider, whereas finding objects is a little more difficult, unless you make them into a building/vehicle/unit as well. Also, LegoRR PC only has one tier of crystals; green. That would mean purple crystals would have to be found in a cutscene. And, I'd much rather the player stay in the tower the entire time. I don't even think you can do more than 3 biomes, so it'd be pretty hard to balance a Planet U as well as RRU Tower.

 

Can't you just add another tier of Energy Crystals? As far as I know, there are more than one tier of Energy Crystals, at least in the PS1 version. About the biomes, you're right, but didn't RockRaiderWolf create a new biome?

 

 

 

BTW, we can actually give each RR member unit a "personality" by modifying their stats.

 

I like. Reminds me a bit of the natures in Pokémon. Remember to put in the "lazy" Rock Raider type, the one that eats sandwiches all the time. ;P

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If the tower is collapsed I can't see how we can climb it.

It's not been crushed like a can. The bottom floors have been crushed by debris, but can be drilled. The middle levels are more open, but still have a lot of heavy debris blocking access to many of the rooms. The top floors are for the most part in their normal condition.

Because the walls to the outside are too thick to drill threw or explode, the player's best bet would be to access the roof which has a helipad. To do that, they'll need to climb up. To do that, I'm guessing we're going to create some building that, once constructed, ends the level as a success, and acts as a giant stair-case/elevator that can push through one level of debris.

Basically, it's like if you stepped on a sand castle. It's not completely gone, there's some form, but the bottom levels will be a lot more condensed than they were. That's at least how I envisioned a collapsed tower being. It's still in the fact of falling apart.

 

Can't you just add another tier of Energy Crystals? As far as I know, there are more than one tier of Energy Crystals, at least in the PS1 version. About the biomes, you're right, but didn't RockRaiderWolf create a new biome?

Extra resources cannot be added in the PC version. There is only one type of crystal, and one type of ore, plus the "refined ore" which is produced only at a single building. The PS1 version was intended to be more arcade-y, which is why they added more than one type of crystal for that version.

RRW's new biome replaces the dirt biome. Biomes are hardcoded so that a specific type of monster will always appear on that biome. So, unfortunately, we only have 3 biome slots.

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Shadowblaze
Extra resources cannot be added in the PC version. There is only one type of crystal, and one type of ore, plus the "refined ore" which is produced only at a single building. The PS1 version was intended to be more arcade-y, which is why they added more than one type of crystal for that version.

 

Dang, that's bad. Someone has to find an exploit to that right away. Anyway; if we used different vehicles, we could make that the raw ore is a normal refined Energy Crystal, if we suppose that the vehicle used is able to refine crystals right away, and the refined one is the purple one, or whatever color you want. Also, this different tier of crystals has to be obtained differently than just refining, obviously. Is that possible, though?

 

 

 

RRW's new biome replaces the dirt biome. Biomes are hardcoded so that a specific type of monster will always appear on that biome. So, unfortunately, we only have 3 biome slots.

 

Argh, we need that exploit badly! Can't we program something to fix that? Or is it related to the unstable engine on which LRR runs, so we can't touch it?

 

EDIT:

 

 

 

-snip-

 

Oh, it's the Twix banner, clever!

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Drill Master
It's not been crushed like a can. The bottom floors have been crushed by debris, but can be drilled. The middle levels are more open, but still have a lot of heavy debris blocking access to many of the rooms. The top floors are for the most part in their normal condition.

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzKvwYt3Zyg

 

Like this?

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Dang, that's bad. Someone has to find an exploit to that right away. Anyway; if we used different vehicles, we could make that the raw ore is a normal refined Energy Crystal, if we suppose that the vehicle used is able to refine crystals right away, and the refined one is the purple one, or whatever color you want. Also, this different tier of crystals has to be obtained differently than just refining, obviously. Is that possible, though?

Refined Ore is equal to ~4 ore in gameplay. The game doesn't see any difference between 4 ore and a processed ore block aside from the method they spawn and the model/textures they use.

 

Argh, we need that exploit badly! Can't we program something to fix that? Or is it related to the unstable engine on which LRR runs, so we can't touch it?

These are all hardcoded elements. One person could probably try .dll injection if they were really talented, but I honestly don't think it's going to be an issue. Working within the limitations is half the fun of modding.

 

Like this?

Pretty much, but with enough damage to cause alarms, explosions and even wake up Cyrem.
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Shadowblaze
Refined Ore is equal to ~4 ore in gameplay. The game doesn't see any difference between 4 ore and a processed ore block aside from the method they spawn and the model/textures they use.

 

Then the solution would be making any vehicle work with the raw ore, and not letting the player put inside the vehicle more than 3 raw ores. This way we make the refined one remain usable for other stuff, while being the same as the raw ore. That is just a concept, I don't remember anything from LRR and I haven't played it so much as you did, and anyway I don't know if this is possible to do or not. Or, you could replace any object with the purple Energy Crystal, add a thing where you can see how many of these you've got, and make its only use be checking when you can make the OP Chrome Crusher work.

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