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Community and Common Cause - What happened?


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#1
Phoenyx

I've been noticing that recently there's been a lot of arguments (and I can't claim innocence myself) and people have been leaving the forum lately.

One might say that RRU has lost its soul, its common cause. What does common cause have to do with an online community, you might ask? A common cause is a reason for a community to exist. Similarly to why a city would be established along a trade route or a town near a vein of valuable minerals, an online community forms itself around this common cause. As potential members join and gather around the initial founders, information is shared and ideas are improved upon, and the community as a whole becomes greater than the sum of its parts. Older forums are in general less organized because of a loss of interest in the common cause. Tensions also start to build up, arguments and fights occur and things generally tend to become more and more unpleasant. Eventually, members can't take it anymore and start to leave, leaving a small group of people behind. Occasionally a new member will stumble across this remnant, but it will never recover.

A good analogy to this is a star, with gravity being the common cause. As material is pulled in from the surrounding molecular cloud, the star begins to burn brightly, becoming brighter than the sum of its components. Old stars are larger because the energy holding them up is able to overcome gravity. The star also starts to burn less efficiently, causing the fuel to be burned at a faster and faster rate. Eventually, the star sheds its outer layers, leaving a white dwarf behind. This white dwarf may pull in more material around it, but it will never burn as brightly as it once did.

What does this mean to us? Unless we can ease these tensions somehow and get back to our common cause, RRU is doomed to the same fate as Necrontyr Online and many other now-dead online communities.

What was, is, our common cause? Discussing, researching, reverse-engineering and modding classic LEGO games. We need to focus on this again. This is the gravity that brought us together. The glue that holds us together. The reason RRU exists.

It is RRU's heart and soul, and without it it cannot function.

Another problem is what's causing the tension. Arguments and fights happen when people don't accept others opinions as valid if they disagree. In addition, a general lack of openness to new ideas only serves to drive the wedge in farther. For example (and nothing else), I enjoy video games with online multiplayer and other things that add to replay value. Some members think that something like that is irrelevant to today's games. That doesn't mean that one of us is wrong and must be corrected. That entire mindset of "correcting" others opinions is a plague among the internet, and one that needs to be stamped out.

Please, help make the star of RRU burn brightly once again! If you do not wish to help it do so, then as much as it pains me to say this it may be a good idea to leave.

I invite others to join in the discussion to help find an appropriate solution to this. However, suggesting that a certain member be banned, no matter who, is not an appropriate solution.
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#2
Lair

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Discussing, researching, reverse-engineering and modding classic LEGO games.

All of which we have been doing lately at least somewhat (sadly, not with RR not at all) so this isn't exactly the full issue.

#3
Phoenyx

Discussing, researching, reverse-engineering and modding classic LEGO games.

All of which we have been doing lately at least somewhat (sadly, not with RR not at all) so this isn't exactly the full issue.


Acknowledged. Initial post has been edited. Do you have any additional insights to what the problem is?

#4
McJobless

I've been noticing that recently there's been a lot of arguments (and I can't claim innocence myself) and people have been leaving the forum lately.

I haven't. I've seen the forcing of expulsion of members who were degrading the quality of this site.

One might say that RRU has lost its soul, its common cause. What does common cause have to do with an online community, you might ask? A common cause is a reason for a community to exist. Similarly to why a city would be established along a trade route or a town near a vein of valuable minerals, an online community forms itself around this common cause. As potential members join and gather around the initial founders, information is shared and ideas are improved upon, and the community as a whole becomes greater than the sum of its parts. Older forums are in general less organized because of a loss of interest in the common cause. Tensions also start to build up, arguments and fights occur and things generally tend to become more and more unpleasant. Eventually, members can't take it anymore and start to leave, leaving a small group of people behind. Occasionally a new member will stumble across this remnant, but it will never recover.

And so you're saying change is bad? Change is a matter of perspective. The problem with Rock Raiders is we have discovered so much about the game, there's just so little more we can do with it, and interest in the unknown has run out, with people moving on to other projects. If Cirevam released Time Raiders tomorrow, the masses would flock over and interest would be sparked again. If I had time to work on modding, I would, but I don't, so I have to stay away from now. This is what happens when the community is mainly consisting of people in school or coming out of it, so they are very busy.

What does this mean to us? Unless we can ease these tensions somehow and get back to our common cause, RRU is doomed to the same fate as Necrontyr Online and many other now-dead online communities.

I think you're wrong. We've shifted our purpose as time has gone on, and the website is only getting bigger and better.

What was, is, our common cause? Discussing, researching, reverse-engineering and modding classic LEGO games. We need to focus on this again. This is the gravity that brought us together. The glue that holds us together. The reason RRU exists.

It is RRU's heart and soul, and without it it cannot function.

And that is what we do. Look at the activity in the those forums.

Another problem is what's causing the tension. Arguments and fights happen when people don't accept others opinions as valid if they disagree. In addition, a general lack of openness to new ideas only serves to drive the wedge in farther. For example (and nothing else), I enjoy video games with online multiplayer and other things that add to replay value. Some members think that something like that is irrelevant to today's games. That doesn't mean that one of us is wrong and must be corrected. That entire mindset of "correcting" others opinions is a plague among the internet, and one that needs to be stamped out.

The problem with said example is your wording makes you seem like an elitist, and that your opinion is correct. I admit I am a massive jerk, I love to get into arguments and I have some very weird points I like to argue, but I usually keep this on the chat networks, away from the public eye, or at least out of modding topics. You cannot have a community which doesn't have people who have conflicting perspectives and want to fight. Personally, I think some brilliant things have come of said fights.

If you do not wish to help it do so, then as much as it pains me to say this it may be a good idea to leave.

You have no right to tell anybody to do this, and you don't have any grounding. People come here for many different reasons, and what they do here is their decision. If someone doesn't want to contribute, that's their choice. Don't force them to help out, because it's likely they don't know how.
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#5
Lair

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I admit I am a massive jerk, I love to get into arguments and I have some very weird points I like to argue, but I usually keep this on the chat networks, away from the public eye, or at least out of modding topics.

THERE WE GO GOOD ON YA MATE
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#6
Phoenyx

I haven't. I've seen the forcing of expulsion of members who were degrading the quality of this site.


I'm technically on a lot more often than anyone else on the forum on a day-to-day basis. I catch stuff that happens when everyone else is off and have noticed several members haven't posted in quite a long time. Also, LZ.

And so you're saying change is bad? Change is a matter of perspective. The problem with Rock Raiders is we have discovered so much about the game, there's just so little more we can do with it, and interest in the unknown has run out, with people moving on to other projects. If Cirevam released Time Raiders tomorrow, the masses would flock over and interest would be sparked again. If I had time to work on modding, I would, but I don't, so I have to stay away from now. This is what happens when the community is mainly consisting of people in school or coming out of it, so they are very busy.


I'm not saying that change is fundamentally bad. It's also not fundamentally good. Overall the changes I've observed have, as a whole, been for the worse.

Also, why, if we've discovered so much about the game, have we not been working on community projects? The only one we had, Candy Raiders, stalled, despite us having several member being able to cover for everyone else.

I think you're wrong. We've shifted our purpose as time has gone on, and the website is only getting bigger and better.


Jack of all trades, master of none. We're not focused. We need to put our efforts into something.

And that is what we do. Look at the activity in the those forums.


All I see are myself, le717 and Origami working on LR1. I'm not too sure about myself, either.

The problem with said example is your wording makes you seem like an elitist, and that your opinion is correct.


Self demonstrating argument right there. Opinion and correct should never be used together. An opinion cannot be proved or disproved.

I admit I am a massive jerk, I love to get into arguments and I have some very weird points I like to argue, but I usually keep this on the chat networks, away from the public eye, or at least out of modding topics. You cannot have a community which doesn't have people who have conflicting perspectives and want to fight. Personally, I think some brilliant things have come of said fights.


Give me one example of something good that has come out of a fight.

You have no right to tell anybody to do this, and you don't have any grounding. People come here for many different reasons, and what they do here is their decision. If someone doesn't want to contribute, that's their choice. Don't force them to help out, because it's likely they don't know how.


1. Hypocrite. I've seen you attempt to force other members out simply because they reminded you of someone who had caused trouble in the past. Remember fun?

2. They don't have to leave if they don't want to, and contributing can be as simple as just being friendly and joining in on discussions and stuff.

I really didn't want an argument to start on this thread. Unfortunately, I can't escape the problem - it just follows me around wherever I go, and I can't get it to go away.

#7
McJobless

I'm technically on a lot more often than anyone else on the forum on a day-to-day basis. I catch stuff that happens when everyone else is off and have noticed several members haven't posted in quite a long time. Also, LZ.

You're technically not. You watch my online time, and you'll see I'm here the majority of every 24 hour cycle. LZ is irrelevant, because that's an entirely separate issue.

I'm not saying that change is fundamentally bad. It's also not fundamentally good. Overall the changes I've observed have, as a whole, been for the worse.

Also, why, if we've discovered so much about the game, have we not been working on community projects? The only one we had, Candy Raiders, stalled, despite us having several member being able to cover for everyone else.

So you think, but I think they've been for the best and we're profiting from them as a community. Unless you want to say anything that was done for the other classic LEGO games besides Rock Raiders was bad?

I'm not going to lie, I never liked the idea of Candy Raiders. I was hoping to not have a theme, yet instead have a collection of people creating their own content which demonstrated the best and brightest of what we can do. Community Projects are also SIGNIFICANTLY more difficult to organise and get people motivated for because of all the conflicting opinions and the fact that all the various files and the project leaders are a mess to deal with.

Jack of all trades, master of none. We're not focused. We need to put our efforts into something.

No, we don't. We have people doing what they love and specialise in already.

All I see are myself, le717 and Origami working on LR1. I'm not too sure about myself, either.

Because you guys are probably the only ones with copies of those games who have the ability to mod them.

Self demonstrating argument right there. Opinion and correct should never be used together. An opinion cannot be proved or disproved.

And yet you continue to push your opinions as if they're greater than anyone elses.

Give me one example of something good that has come out of a fight.

LZ fighting forced RRU to go through some changes, and Cyrem then used the time to make even more, better changes.

1. Hypocrite. I've seen you attempt to force other members out simply because they reminded you of someone who had caused trouble in the past. Remember fun?

2. They don't have to leave if they don't want to, and contributing can be as simple as just being friendly and joining in on discussions and stuff.

1) He never reminded me of anyone, and I'd like to see proof of that. My arguments against fun were unrelated to his contributions, more to his behaviour.
2) But what if there's nothing to contribute? I have nothing to say on the other Classic LEGO threads most of the time, am I to b/s up a response to "contribute"?

#8
Creator

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What was, is, our common cause? Discussing, researching, reverse-engineering and modding classic LEGO games. We need to focus on this again. This is the gravity that brought us together. The glue that holds us together. The reason RRU exists.


You people have a wonderful discussion going there, and I wouldn't want to interrupt. Let me just say that, in my humble opinion, reverse-engineering games and such is simply too difficult for the majority of people. We have to rely on our small cadre of four or five skilled experts for that. I'd love to contribute something, anything to Lego Racers research, and I gladly share my observations from playing the game where it's relevant, but most of the things origamiguy and the others do are simply beyond my humble understanding. All I can really do is use their tools and thank them for their efforts.
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#9
Phoenyx

You're technically not. You watch my online time, and you'll see I'm here the majority of every 24 hour cycle. LZ is irrelevant, because that's an entirely separate issue.


I'm on practically 24/7. That's a lot more than just a majority. I'm also apparently much more observant.

So you think, but I think they've been for the best and we're profiting from them as a community. Unless you want to say anything that was done for the other classic LEGO games besides Rock Raiders was bad?


Look at the bigger picture. Yes, we've made advancements with the other games, but at the cost of SEVERAL major members.

I'm not going to lie, I never liked the idea of Candy Raiders. I was hoping to not have a theme, yet instead have a collection of people creating their own content which demonstrated the best and brightest of what we can do. Community Projects are also SIGNIFICANTLY more difficult to organise and get people motivated for because of all the conflicting opinions and the fact that all the various files and the project leaders are a mess to deal with.


Point taken. But that's not the main reason why it died out.

No, we don't. We have people doing what they love and specialise in already.


What I meant is that we're all over the place. No sense of community.

Because you guys are probably the only ones with copies of those games who have the ability to mod them.


Point taken.

And yet you continue to push your opinions as if they're greater than anyone elses.


Says the guy who just called Lair and I blind fools for our views on the situation in the status updates.

LZ fighting forced RRU to go through some changes, and Cyrem then used the time to make even more, better changes.


I thought LZ was irrelevant to this situation? Also, didn't the changes implemented NOT encourage him to return?

1) He never reminded me of anyone, and I'd like to see proof of that. My arguments against fun were unrelated to his contributions, more to his behaviour.
2) But what if there's nothing to contribute? I have nothing to say on the other Classic LEGO threads most of the time, am I to b/s up a response to "contribute"?


1. You were one of the people accusing him of being a Devestater alt. I know you're going to deny that fact seeing as you want to convince me that my entire life is nothing but a lie.

2. What about helping with the community itself? Making suggestions, helping other members get acquainted, etc...

Honestly, I've lost all hope in trying to revive RRU, thanks to you, so I'll leave it to its fate. I didn't want an argument here. The stress is causing me to have bouts of uncontrollable rage, and it's going to kill me if I don't get away from the source.

#10
McJobless

I'm on practically 24/7. That's a lot more than just a majority. I'm also apparently much more observant.

You're proving my point about you being pretentious. You're not observant and it is impossible to be on for that amount of time because people have to sleep.

Look at the bigger picture. Yes, we've made advancements with the other games, but at the cost of SEVERAL major members.

"Major"? Such as?

What I meant is that we're all over the place. No sense of community.

That's where General Discussion, Blogs and Status Updates come in. We also have a Skype and Steam group, and even a Facebook page. We are more connected than you apparently think.

Says the guy who just called Lair and I blind fools for our views on the situation in the status updates.

But based on what evidence I've just provided, I think I'm within my rights to say so.

I thought LZ was irrelevant to this situation? Also, didn't the changes implemented NOT encourage him to return?

LZ was irrelevant to the comment you made. You didn't say a fight caused after the changes, you just said a fight. I could have called on WWII if I wanted to. LZ left because of several other changes Cyrem made prior to his leaving, and made his point that regardless of what changes were made, he still wasn't going to return ever.

1. You were one of the people accusing him of being a Devestater alt. I know you're going to deny that fact seeing as you want to convince me that my entire life is nothing but a lie.

2. What about helping with the community itself? Making suggestions, helping other members get acquainted, etc...

1) Hold the train, I would convince you your life is a life? Does that mean I'm from a Matrix movie? And I wasn't the first person to start that, I was supporting other people who made very valid claims.
2) I have and do? Recently I haven't been posting much due to real life problems, but I still do both things when I do post.

Honestly, I've lost all hope in trying to revive RRU, thanks to you, so I'll leave it to its fate. I didn't want an argument here. The stress is causing me to have bouts of uncontrollable rage, and it's going to kill me if I don't get away from the source.

There's nothing to "revive" because it's NOT DEAD YET. RRU will continue to be a brilliant forum which holds the best classic LEGO game knowledge on the internet, thanks to the member base. You're the one causing the stress by over-reacting to small little incidents here and there that aren't, in the long run, doing anything to affect RRU as a modding community.

I am having the same rage, for the same reasons. This wouldn't of happened if you hadn't of flown of the handle in the first place.

Moderators, Admin, very sorry if any of this has been against the forum rules; I do tend to have bouts of going absolutely mental when I feel very strongly on a subject. I have no business to do this, but it's my opinion this thread should be locked or deleted. We're done here.
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#11
Phoenyx

It's my opinion this thread should be locked or deleted. We're done here.


I agree, simply because you started this argument, and one could argue it's because you feel that you're omnipotent and everyone who disagrees with you is mentally challenged. As I said before, I'm done here.

#12
McJobless

I agree, simply because you started this argument, and one could argue it's because you feel that you're omnipotent and everyone who disagrees with you is mentally challenged. As I said before, I'm done here.

Cyrem and the mods, forgive me for being so weak.

I am not omnipotent, and I am just a regular user with regular posting powers. Nobody who disagrees with me is mentally challenged, and I think that's disrespectful to people who suffer from mental problems. People who disagree with me are given the chance to prove it to me, and many times have people proven me wrong (see the Star Wars vs Halo thread, I forgot to post it in time, but essentially I would have declared defeat because Antillies wiped the floor with my arse) and I have respectfully backed down. You're acting childish now, and frankly I think you need to take a step back, cool down, read what went down in this thread, and then just forget it ever happened and move on with your life.

#13
JimbobJeffers

Moderators, Admin, very sorry if any of this has been against the forum rules; I do tend to have bouts of going absolutely mental when I feel very strongly on a subject. I have no business to do this, but it's my opinion this thread should be locked or deleted. We're done here.

I don't think it should be locked or deleted, or at least another less argumentative topic should be created. There are obviously issues that need to be discussed here, and if people are concerned about RRU going downhill - even if others don't believe so - then this should be seen as important to the community. I'm not directing any flame against anyone here.

Yes, I've only been here for a couple of months. But I still see the community and feel I'm settling into it.

#14
McJobless

I don't think it should be locked or deleted, or at least another less argumentative topic should be created. There are obviously issues that need to be discussed here, and if people are concerned about RRU going downhill - even if others don't believe so - then this should be seen as important to the community. I'm not directing any flame against anyone here.

We had another topic about RRU going downhill months/years ago. That one was deleted/locked because it was unproductive.

I see no issues to discuss. What's important to the community is LEGO, LEGO games in particular. Just because a couple people can't get their act together doesn't mean the whole community is falling through.
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#15
Cirevam

Let me just say that, in my humble opinion, reverse-engineering games and such is simply too difficult for the majority of people. We have to rely on our small cadre of four or five skilled experts for that. I'd love to contribute something, anything to Lego Racers research, and I gladly share my observations from playing the game where it's relevant, but most of the things origamiguy and the others do are simply beyond my humble understanding. All I can really do is use their tools and thank them for their efforts.

This is the core issue with our community. Read this over a few times then look at the people who do modding research and make tools. Everyone can come up with ideas but only a few people can implement them and even fewer give us the ability to do even that. For Lego Racers it's something like THREE PEOPLE researching the game. Rock Raiders was roughly the same way on the old forum. And even when we get good ideas for mods it either takes us bloody forever or the end result is not too significant.

Why? We're all lone wolves here. It doesn't take a geologist to see that. None of the community overhauls even got off the ground. A few people make one or two things, a texture or something just to act like they're interested. But the community doesn't band together because only a few of the elite have the capability to create expansive mods. But that's not the only reason, since we do have enough people to create small teams. The main reason is that we're all dicks to each other! I don't even have to point out names due to the recent topics and blog posts. And it's all avoidable. Why? Well, the shoutbox only appears on the forum index. You can click away at any time, turbo goblins, don't let the mean people get to you. You don't have to read every single blog or status update. I certainly don't. And I believe there's an Ignore Member feature if you're so easily offended by someone's words.

At the end of the day, if someone here is getting on your nerves you really have to ask yourself, "why am I on this forum?" If you can't come up with a reason or if it's "forum games lol" then you might as well leave since the only thing you're contributing is anger or padding your post count. Don't bother making a goodbye topic just to come back a week later, simply ask me to ban your account and I'll do it since I really can't stand how childish some people are here. Granted, there are a lot of what most would consider children here, but that's not really the point. The mods don't have time to babysit you guys, so either get it together or pack your bags. Better yet, contribute to the forum community. I have plenty of stuff that I don't have time to do since I have a full-time job, I'm looking for a better job, and I'm looking at the process of buying a house for next year. I have maps and other simple things that I would gladly let other people handle if they were willing. Even if you yourself don't have much time, it helps. And that's what a community is about.
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