DDI looking for help for Rock Raiders 2 (Rock Raiders inspired title)

[Cirevam]

1 hour ago, StewartG said:

I was hoping there was a resurgence of interest.

 

I don't speak for everyone, but I think there would be more interest if there was a framework we could see. What formats, which language, which APIs, etc. I could make a few models, but would they even work for your game and your engine? Who knows? I'm not going to start working on something if there's no guarantee it will be usable even as concept art.

 

If you just want concept art and the like, fine. Otherwise I have no idea where to begin.

[Addictgamer]

6 minutes ago, A Stick said:

Cool. Who is working on it?

 

DDI, the original developer of LEGO Rock Raiders.

[Cyrem]

Looks like things went a little bit off the rails here. Throwing insults, regardless of direction is not going to accomplish anything here other than continuing to sour the waters.

I will be direct on my feelings towards some of the mistakes that were made, they are not meant to offend. I will also state ways you could solve these issues in my opinion.

- The association of Minecraft. People considered LRR unique, mentioning Minecraft threatens LRR’s uniqueness and the community did not want that. It was also spoken about in a time when many Minecraft clones were appearing. Yes, DDI changed directions on that, which was great, but some did not realise this had changed and the name “Block Raiders” still mentioned in areas didn’t help that.

Solution: Remove any mentions of “Minecraft” or “Block Raiders”. Change promo resources to reflect this also. If LRR2 is inspired from anything, it should be inspired from the original game.

- Big changes to mechanics. People loved the original LRR, the majority of people don’t want major changes to game mechanics, rather they want expansion, enhancements, refinements etc… The idea of vertical mining is an example of expansion that the community wants. And most of all, the modding. If someone wants to change certain mechanics that defined LRR, it would be on their own terms.

Solution: Show the community the idea list and revise it if needed and put it somewhere where people can refer to it easily.

- Lack of consistent, informative PR. Most people thought the project was dead, and again more people thought it was still going to be a Minecraft clone (as above). The lack of consistent regular communication, whether it’s just a drop in every fortnight or something to say “hi” and say what you’ve been up to, or weekly updates etc.. A lot of professional indie developers keep their communities in the loop, this is what this community wanted. Companies generally appoint someone to do this for them, so everyone else can focus on the game.

Solution: This is pretty easy, keep everyone up to date. If there’s no updates, still engage the community to let them know the project didn’t die.

- Visual Impressions. This is a HUGE factor as to whether people will suddenly have a good impression or bad impression. If you give them a bad impression, that impression has a greater chance of getting worse very rapidly. People’s impressions of the LRR2 website were very poor, it was half themed, it loaded slowly, there wasn’t barely any “new” content (other than the concept art)… just to mention a few of the many issues. (btw it’s also offline now). I offered my services to re-design it, but you weren’t interested at the time. Then there is the promotional content and the reusing of old resources mixed with minecraft stuff which didn’t help people’s opinions that a quality game was going to be made.

Solution: Get all PR material re-designed professionally.

- Facebook. I’m just adding this one here because well…. it’s a bit of a given. Facebook is a bad platform for proper discussions between fans and developers. If you want to do promotion, sure, Facebook might be perfect. If you want to talk about the game itself with fans, you need a platform for that, this is why most game developers employ Forums. Another thing about Facebook is that, a lot of the fans on RRU, do not use Facebook and won’t sign up to it.

Solution: Keep your main communication platform where it’s already established, or find a proper platform designed for this style communication.

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And like Cirevam also mentioned above, this community likes specifications and other hard details.

[McJobless]

It's always hard to talk directly to people like Stewart, because I feel like he does deserve some measure of respect, but at the same time I find myself disagreeing with a lot of what he's said. These are my major complaints with your first big post.

 

7 hours ago, StewartG said:

Unfortunately is is very easy for someone who has never worked on a game, never run a team of developers, artists, animators, musicians, never published a title that has sold over a million units, to give their inexperienced opinion about work, content schedules, that you actually have no experience about.

 

The "You Have No Experience" argument is probably one of the weakest you could possibly use. Aside from the fact that you're making assumptions that those who are on the outside of the fence aren't able to make reasonable conclusions about the way the industry works and how games are made, you're ignoring the fact that everybody is entitled to share their opinion on this free forum, and you are free to provide evidence to support your arguments, but it is highly unprofessional to call people out because they are "under you".

 

I won't debate the Wii Market because it's a fight that's not worth it, but needless to say I'm disagreeing with you as far as selling a million units being a big deal that lets you call people out for inexperience. You might have had a point if you were talking about well reviewed games.

 

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There is so much more to a project than posting ideas or pithy comments on a blog page.

Then why have you not posted any proof to this? This is my biggest source of irritation. All throughout your post, you call out people for not contributing...

 

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After good feedback I wanted to include the RRU team in working in and on this project, I put out multiple requests for art, programming, music content and I have got virtually no response.

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Instead of being negative, moaning about other people not doing stuff, how about spending the time actually being creative and productive, you currently don't have the ability for a main game, but a level editor, is probably in your capability, you could have helped with this but you chose to do nothing, but then moan at other who are trying to help!!!

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it really annoys me when people who can help, choose to do nothing and instead moan at those who are doing things, what a waste!

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Be a winner not a whiner, please be part of the solution.

 

It is here that you are demonstrating a level of arrogance; you want us to contribute yet you've not committed anything yourself. A website or Facebook page is not enough, Stewart. If you really want to confirm that you are making this thing real, you need to start by making concept builds, vertical slices or test content. Show, don't tell.

 

The problem here is that you're taking ideas from places like Minecraft without demonstrating that they work. Every good game designer knows that playtesting as often and early as possible is the KEY to success, yet it seems like you instead want to focus on building a pool of high concepts without finding any way to link them together. It's nice that you've got bits of music and models from people around the place, but how do they work? Where will they be used? How will they improve the experience? Have you asked yourself any of these questions?

 

The most active members of this site are fairly old and have their own lives to deal with right now. If you want us to put aside our own time to be a part of this, you need to give us a more physical reason to get excited. This is one of the first things you learn at Game Design School when you start pitching and developing ideas; did you miss that class?

 

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Firstly we HAVE tried to engage the community in designing RR2, the minecraft concept was just that, a concept, that we proposed and some liked it, however  the majority did not, so we decided NOT to go with the Minecraft style - that is called discussion, debate and listening to YOU the RRU fans.

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 Not all your ideas are good - in your new job you will learn that the world doesn't revolve around you and your ideas for copying 'Dwarf Fortress' (your shovelware concept!!!)  will be responded by thats 2D, that is a retrograde step, not an enhancement.

Firstly, it's amazing how quickly you shut down an idea that you didn't generate, yet you go on about how happy you are to discuss ideas with the fans. Hypocrisy, much?

 

Secondly, you're making assumptions that Ringtail wanted to produce a directly 2D clone of the game, whereas how I read his post was "bring the spirit and some of the functionality of Dwarf Fortress to the LEGO Rock Raiders mould while keeping the 3D world aspect". You need to consider the fact that when people say "It's like X game..." they're probably not being 100% literal.

 

Thirdly, you talk earlier about your business-mind and how much experience you have, and yet you can't see the financial boom in the 2D market? Are you unaware of what types of games are making the biggest killing in the mobile/indie markets right now? Are you unaware of names like Binding of Issac, FEZ, Braid, LIMBO and so on? You would think that if you're so business-focused, you would keep your mind open to these potential profit margins.

 

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When you get more experience you will find that one of the reasons the other teams attempts have failed is they have not planned and organized enough at the pre-development stage.

Then why haven't you demonstrated this to us by showing us deadlines, timelines or any other organisational tools? Nobody here knows when you plan on actually working on the game, which is a major contributor to the "he's not going to go through with it" mentality around here. If you want to prove you mean business and actually drum up some decent ideas/help, you damn well better prove that there's action behind the scenes and that you know how your future outlook is.

 

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Many years of experience has taught me not to rush into demos, which look pretty but are not functional, until I am sure of what we are doing and that we will be able to complete it, then is when we start.

This is the complete opposite advise that is commonly given at every other game's studio. Listen to any developer from one of the big publisher studios, or from the tiny indie studios. Their GDC talks constantly revolve around the idea of getting into producing content as early as possible, so that you, not your audience, can be sure of what you're doing and where you're going. It's lethal to assume you can just push away playtesting and demoing the game, because you won't get the necessary feedback on your execution of the ideas until it's too late to change them.

 

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I will again ask for anyone who can help to send in an application, I would love to have you the fans on the team, your continued input would be great and appreciated, and its a good opportunity for you to showcase, and get your first step in the business, but I am realizing that part time inexperienced development is not a reliable way to create games, I am leaning towards a full time development team, but that then requires a bigger more costly plan, but it will be a guaranteed development and release.

I've finished 6 games as a student/indie dev (for clients, so no public releases). Nothing I've made looks great, but I'm trying to look for some real world work that will lead me into a golden opportunity with a AAA developer. I need something.

 

I'm sceptical of this offer, however, because you haven't shown me that I'm going to get a return, not in money, but in quality experience. You talk about management and planning, you've failed to show it. I would love to say "I worked on a successful LEGO fan-game" or "I worked on a sequel to a classic LEGO game", but I have no guarantees that working with you would pay my rent, contribute to my resume or be a positive experience.

 

If you can address my complaints without calling me a "whiner", then I may consider actually building potential prototypes, level designs, story stuff etc for you. But I need some kind of acknowledgement that you actually give a damn, rather than trying to cash in on a community and some current fads in gaming.

[Shadow322]

Wow... I am very sorry for lighting the inferno that made 2 whole new pages for this thread...

 

I would like to know what progress has been made on this concept as an overall whole since the project began. And since it's the easy part, I would like to give my ideas on the project if it isn't too much trouble.

[PWNZOR]

I'm just going to chime in here and ask everyone to stop throwing insults around, be they unprofessional ones or professional ones.

 

There have been issues with regular updates, I'm not going to just look past that. There have been other issues as well as many have pointed out. But let's please stop throwing them back and forth. I don't see how either of the sides flaming back and forth with the issues have improved this situation. Right now we need be constructive, and what most of this discussion is, is destructive.

 

The more animosity spread around, the less likely the interested parties will stay interested. I'd love to see this project come into fruition, but not in this manner. I'm not trying to be all "let's be friends, guys". If there are problems, let them be known, but without all the snarky comments and nitpicking. If that continues, especially on the biggest existing community that would support such a project, then people are going to leave. Stop the insults, even if it's being general.

 

In my personal opinion, if you need to bring up issues, please bring them up like Cyrem has - cleanly show the issue, present solutions, explain clearly, but without the bashing on people.

 

LRR is almost 17 years old, most of us being significantly older than that. Let's show a little maturity here. I know I'm exactly qualified saying all of this, as I've been highly inactive for the past while, and haven't always been the most mature about things either before, but I hate visiting this forum and seeing things like some of the stuff said in this thread.

 

Stop the insults, please.

[Fluffy Cupcake]

9 hours ago, StewartG said:

I know with typing it is hard to tell emotions

Maybe we should have a community voice chat sometime with you involved. Skype, Discord, Teamspeak, etc, you name it. It might help clear some things up.

[mpc007]

I'm pretty new to the forums, but is it still true that the original DDI team is running this side project, or has it been taken over by others? I love the original game and for me only a remaster with updated graphics, physics, and new maps would already be awesome. The original concept as a mining / survival RTS was awesome.

[Fush]

 

[StewartG]

I am taking advice from PWNZER and letting things cool down. Sorry McJobLess, you took a lot of time to respond to all the points, (that weren't directed at you) but I really don't want to get into unproductive discussions. Accusations were made, at me, and I should know better than to respond!   I have the 4th of July to celebrate, I will be back after much food and merry making.

[Polaris]

2 minutes ago, StewartG said:

I am taking advice from PWNZER and letting things cool down. Sorry McJobLess, you took a lot of time to respond to all the points, (that weren't directed at you) but I really don't want to get into unproductive discussions. Accusations were made, at me, and I should know better than to respond!   I have the 4th of July to celebrate, I will be back after much food and merry making.

 

Stewart, in all fairness, I think the last thing people want you to do is not respond.

 

- Polaris

[StewartG]

8 minutes ago, Polaris said:

I think the last thing people want you to do is not respond

I am not a smooth PR person, I say what I think and that bluntness can get me into trouble. It is great for getting things done, if I say it, I mean it, I put my money where my mouth is and I make things happen. My problems in life are usually with people who want to shout out their opinions and like to tell the people who are doing things, all the things they are doing wrong, but are not wiling to take the chance and risks themselves.  So I really don't want to get into a side discussion on what someone else thinks about me personally or other none LEGO games, I came to discuss RR2.

I have been looking at tomfyhr's animations - he has talent, and some great work, I would rather discuss productive, creative, matters like this.

Life is too short, see you after the 4th.

[noghiri]

After the 4th, could you please post a sort of state of the union, rundown of what's going on with the project? A lot of the recent criticism boils down to we have no idea what the current plan is, and stuff that we had pointed out might not be the best approach for various reasons seems to be in a confusing mix of in the plan, out of the plan, on neptune, and running rampant on the streets of Tokyo.

 

As a side note, I disagree strongly with not making gameplay demos and prototypes, even if they only exist internally.  My favourite games, and the most successful, out of the indie games I've done QA for, all shared a few things in common: Clear planning, testing early and often, and a willingness to change the plan if you find out that an idea that looks good on paper turns out to really suck when you're actually play it.

[Cyrem]

6 hours ago, StewartG said:

I am not a smooth PR person, I say what I think and that bluntness can get me into trouble. It is great for getting things done, if I say it, I mean it, I put my money where my mouth is and I make things happen. My problems in life are usually with people who want to shout out their opinions and like to tell the people who are doing things, all the things they are doing wrong, but are not wiling to take the chance and risks themselves.  So I really don't want to get into a side discussion on what someone else thinks about me personally or other none LEGO games, I came to discuss RR2.

I have been looking at tomfyhr's animations - he has talent, and some great work, I would rather discuss productive, creative, matters like this.

Life is too short, see you after the 4th.

 

I'm sure people understand that project managers aren't usually the best at PR, and that can be good, because their job isn't PR, but to get things done. This is why PR is usually handled by specific employees. As @Polaris said, ignoring comments in order to let things "cool off" won't necessarily make things "cool off". In this situation, a big reason why things are heated is from the lack of prior responses. So as you would understand, this is like keeping the coals hot. My suggestion is, is to simply acknowledge peoples concerns and complaints. They write because they want their feelings towards this heard, not because they want to argue; and I'm sure that's how you feel also, you want your feelings heard by the community. You would like to talk about positive, productive things... and thats good, but, you must first thoughtfully handle and acknowledge the negative. This may mean you have to take some steps back and go: "ok, maybe I didn't handle this the best, maybe I could have done xxxx and in the future I will try to xxxx" (This is an example, I'm not directing this at any particular raised issue). This acknowledgement is what will make things "cool off". This does not mean you are wrong and this does not mean that criticizers are always right, it just means you are willing to listen and not quick to deflect negative feedback. I say these things to assist you handling this situation from my perspective, not to be demeaning or to say you don't know your stuff or sound above you, but to genuinely help you mediate.

 

As a side note, I am interested in which two people who worked on the original LRR were wanting to work on the second and if they were going to be involved with discussions for the new game (because we'd really like all parties involved with the project to actually be involved). In fact, it would be great to be kept up to date on the whole team and what their roles are for LRR2.

 

As previously mentioned in emails to you, I am very happy to open up this forum (Sections etc..) to help get things done, to alleviate questions and more. I can setup topics, pages, private development forums for internal project organization... If you want your own forums for the project, fair enough, I have over 10 years experience working with forums and can help you get that set up. Whatever is needed to get the project on track.

 

Have you begun putting together a Project (Management) Plan? If so, can we see it? (With confidential information removed).

[Shadow322]

That all being said I ask again, could you please give a detailed list of the game's current status?

[Lair]

10 minutes ago, Shadow322 said:

That all being said I ask again, could you please give a detailed list of the game's current status?

in case you didn't notice, the two posts above yours are doing the same thing. there is no need to continue bumping this thread with the same questions everyone else has.

[Shadow322]

I've been thinking about this, I feel like I'd want a spiritual successor to Rock Raiders to have more refined RTA style game-play element and also take some inspiration from the classic PC ARMY MEN games by the now pretty much defunct 3DO.

[Shadow322]

I'm starting to think Stew bailed on us.

[Chireidonuts]

Didn't DDI die? The headquarters ceased operations in '12 due to insolvency. The website, including the US branch is down. Stewart's an entrepreneur with multiple companies he's CEO of, I can't really see this being a surefire priority anyways.

[TGP1994]

I just noticed this, I had no idea someone from DDI was working on resurrecting Rock Raiders. I'd love to stay updated on this.

[Fluffy Cupcake]

On 2016-09-01 at 2:03 PM, Chireidonuts said:

The website, including the US branch is down.

 

ddi-games.com?

On 2016-06-27 at 3:25 PM, StewartG said:

The ddi-games site is not our site! a reseller wanted it and set it up themselves. It was not being used so I just had it taken down.

[Shadow322]

So why is this thread still pinned if we all hate it and want it to disappear?

[Lair]

why do you keep bumping it is the real question

[Cyrem]

2 hours ago, Shadow322 said:

So why is this thread still pinned if we all hate it and want it to disappear?

 

Who's "we"? and we don't all hate it.

 

This is a feedback topic for DDI, still relevant should they actually do something. I still think the product they had in mind was very different to the impressions they were giving, thinking words like "Minecraft" would spark our interest without realizing it would do the complete opposite. Additionally vague ideas, a rushed website didn't give us much faith in the product. As a result, conclusions were jumped to on both parties and now the project's "icing".

 

Still should they be working on it in secret I'd very much be interested in seeing what the came up with.

 

Stewart is still following this topic and even though we asked him to actively communicate with us regularly to relieve some of the bad perceptions getting around, some sort of response on what is going on would be appreciated.

[aidenpons]

On 1/20/2017 at 7:42 PM, Shadow322 said:

if we all hate it

"Voicing opinions with well-backed arguments" and "hate" are two rather different things, as I've learnt on RRU. We're very... vocal, when we have something we want to say. I've also noted that positive feedback (which is good) tend to take up less space than negative feedback (which is also good), as negative feedback usually needs some preliminary explanation...

 

... just two comments.